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Thoughts and Musings on the Ineos Grenadier


Bowie69

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On 7/26/2021 at 1:58 PM, Happyoldgit said:


As an aside, and I am not sure if it has been mentioned before in this section or elsewhere, but after a chat among the A&M team back in October 2020 Jeremy 996 sent an email to Ineos on behalf of LR4x4. The idea was to inform them of the existence of our forum, that we are independent and self funded, that our membership has a wealth of knowledge in the 'practical side of 4x4 ownership / operation / maintenance / design / fabrication' etc. Jeremy also mentioned that we had set up a section entirely devoted to the Ineos Grenadier and that some of the comments from our members may be of interest and potentially of assistance to them.

We asked for nothing, it was just a courtesy "reach out" to a new manufacturer who seem to be striving to produce something of interest to a number of our members. 

 

Just to amplify Happyoldgit's comment, I never did receive a response to the e-mail I sent to Ineos, Jim Radcliffe and their press officer.

They seem to have a policy of formal engagement with accredited journalists and a general acceptance of social media sources with co-operation only as private individuals, (see the PowerfulUK YouTube video on the previous page).

I have got access to all of the press resources and have commented on them where I see fit. I don't get sent them specially. I'm on the 2B tour, together with 100s of others!

Just to illustrate what kind of anorak I am, I also stalk the wider web, Facebook, main stream media, the motoring press and YouTube looking for Grenadier content, some of which I post here. (Much of it is just too dull and derivative to give it exposure). If I have missed something novel, interesting or controversial, please add it here or tell me about it. 

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I suppose it’s a bit unrealistic to expect their PR office to engage fully with every Tom, Dick and Harry who calls them or every club and forum, as they can’t know which enquiries are serious and informed, and which are tyre kickers looking for a new subject to waste time or unfairly malign.  It’s a pity, though, and it’s worth a try.  Well done for what you have managed to get.

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On 7/31/2021 at 2:15 PM, Anderzander said:

It is.  They are calling it the 2b prototype experience. It’ll last about 2hours.

Not really a test drive then, more of a drive about !

I do like the Grenadier and I do hope to drive one for real one day. Perhaps at a dealer should I have a windfall.

Mo

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  • 2 weeks later...
3 hours ago, missingsid said:

A frame on top of a frame on top of a frame (chassis).

As the extra frame appears to be holding the rear lights and the filler neck, I'd guess it is only temporary?

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11 hours ago, jeremy996 said:

As the extra frame appears to be holding the rear lights and the filler neck, I'd guess it is only temporary?

Wouldn't think so as it also has the inner wheel arches on it. Presumably they are off to a flatbed company for completion.

If it was temp only it would an expensive amount of metal to throw away.

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I think it would be quite cool with a flat-bed!

I really like the look of the back of the truck in the photos above - maybe it's just the angle, but they look good, sort of military.

It's growing on me!

Si

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That looks like the rear axle has moved back a bit for the tray version? Leading edge of wheel is under the C-pillar on the SW, and way behind it on the flat bed.

Possibly trying to avoid the issue with 79 series cruiser where the weight all ends up behind the rear axle.

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Also, alloy wheels? I though they were going with steelies..... not that I liked them that much 😛 

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Maybe these are for a special order, Aus? Can't make out the number plate on the SW.

Glanced at the bottom pic and could not work out why a 110 SW pic was added.

17 hours ago, jeremy996 said:

As the extra frame appears to be holding the rear lights and the filler neck, I'd guess it is only temporary?

Wouldn't think so as it also has the inner wheel arches on it. Presumably they are off to a flatbed company for completion.

If it was temp only it would an expensive amount of metal to throw away.

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15 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

Possibly trying to avoid the issue with 79 series cruiser where the weight all ends up behind the rear axle.

1981504016_Grenadierpickup3.jpg.c0f8cd5d194e231527897825541f35f7.jpg.56009ec08763834b0d807f79140ab877.jpg

 

 

Looks like they are DUPLICATING the issue with the 79 Series dual cab, where the rear wheels have been moved, but simply not far back enough.  With a decent sized tray at the back of this Grenadier, it's rear wheels are going to end up positioned very similarly to the 79 Series dual cab's tray.  Yes, Ineos have moved the rear wheels have moved back, just like Toyota did, albeit not far back enough, in my opinion.

(Photo credit to Carsguide review - https://www.carsguide.com.au/adventure/land-cruiser-79-series-gxl-70350 )

 

2018-Land-Cruiser-79-series-gxl-ute-whit

The difference with the 79 Series is that the rear suspension is leaf spring, so the rear leaf spring shackles are actually roughly in the middle of the the tray.  So that's not so bad, because this means the rear tray is getting some of its support roughly half way down the length of the tray.


But since the Grenadier's rear suspension is likely to remain coil for the dual cab, it's support is no where near the middle of where the tray will be, with a similar length tray.

 So this could mean the chassis is being pivoted on the chassis from a point thats just below the front of the tray by the rear axle.

This would be rather unfortunate because it will be a recipe for a bent chassis, when the tray is heavily loaded and the vehicle is subjected to offroad punishment.

Edited by tempestv8
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The Grenadier rear axle is clearly further back than the Toymota's one.  Further,  the way a cart horse suspension is attached to the chassis is completely different to a modern coil setup - either way, the designers have to concentrate the load from a certain chassis length to the suspension mount(s) and it's been done successfully for many years.  The chassis won't bend because of some rear overhang.  Finally, don't forget there is a heck of a lot of weight ahead of that axle!  People are looking for problems that don't exist.  I'm very sure Ineos will bring a well-sorted arrangement to market...

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I have got back from my trip down to near Lewes from Melton Mowbray for the Grenadier 2B Prototype Tour Experience - 402 miles door to door in my LR 110CSW 200Tdi.

Spent just over 2.5 hours there with a half hour passenger ride in one of the drivetrain prototypes. It's a proper prototype with a mix of one-off plastic bits, gaffer tape, one-off metal parts, lots of dymo-tape labels and part of the initial talk was ignore the interior, that will change, concentrate on the drivetrain, ride, handling, controllability, noise and vibration levels. So, impressions; it's an X5 drivetrain reworked as a proper off roader - air intake up high, optional electric lockers and optimised for low down torque, Ian, (Ian White MBE), the test driver thought the engine didn't need to do much more than 2500rpm. Very controllable and well matched to the auto box. Nothing too dramatic was done across a mix of parkland, woods, sheep fields and some rolling slopes, but I got the impression that my 200Tdi would have been rather rougher riding, a bit breathless in places and I would have had issues with my steering lock!

It was very civilised; the seats are really excellent, (reminded me of the Recaros in my old Vauxhall Nova GTE), the noise levels low, (even with the windows open), and low levels of vibration, (remember my base line is a 200Tdi!) Plenty of shoulder room, the cabin seems huge compared to my 110. It is far to early to judge fit and finish, but the outer panels seem well put together and the prototype interior seems well judged. (So many bits are 3D printed, other than shape and location, I'm not sure what else you can take away from this).

Apparently there are announcements about sales, service and warranty shortly; they are not going for a conventional dealer network; we will have to wait and see for final details.

I took a lot of pictures, some of which are below, (some were just "meh"). They were not keen for people to take pictures of the underside as there are changes already planned, the basic drivetrain is set, but the under-bonnet layout is still being revised, and they would not open any of the bonnets, (probably debating how many covers to put in the way; the answer is DON'T!).

The wiring sounds like a bit of a hybrid; the drivetrain prototype has issues with the window switches being miss-mapped, with the wrong window moving when a switch is operated, so I would guess that the interior and basic systems are CANBUS, (with minor programming issues), but the accessory switches are intended to be wired to under-bonnet fuse boxes and terminations; sticking a winch on should be a doddle. The bumpers are in 5 bits, with bits being replaceable separately, with space for a concealed winch.

No one could tell me about the provision for a tow hitch and electrics; this was apparently the most expected optional extra, (I'll need it).

I think Ineos are being very brave letting the public see a vehicle this early, ("never show fools and children things half done!"), some of the Facebook groups are full of the impatient wanting a price and availability NOW, but they are still a year from commercial release, but come October I expect to be putting down a returnable deposit.

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9 hours ago, jeremy996 said:

it's an X5 drivetrain

I think that's a little misleading, the engine and gearbox are X5 (B57or B58 coupled to a ZF 8HP70) but the transfer case is bespoke, the propshafts are bespoke and the axles are Carrera. I'm maybe being a little pedantic.

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