Anderzander Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 So many fallacies in this FB posts I don't know where to start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Remarkable isn’t it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 8 hours ago, Ozzy50 said: New Defender Facebook group ? Is that the whole Defender press team or just one person with multiple accounts ? Just a bunch of beard groomers. That reminds me I need a trim. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Can’t they sell it in kit form to bypass some laws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 13 minutes ago, Badger110 said: Can’t they sell it in kit form to bypass some laws? Available from your nearest Ikea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 10 hours ago, Anderzander said: They don’t seem keen on this video on the new Defender Facebook group: ... and we all know the complete carp about everything that gets posted on Facebook 😂 In fact, whilst writing this, it occurred to me how well matched the new ''Defender'' and Facebook are ! Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 28 minutes ago, Badger110 said: Can’t they sell it in kit form to bypass some laws? Yes you can, but that would limit the markets to UK, AUS (possibly), US (some states) and one or two others (the few countries that allow kit cars). Low volume gets you some other markets but most of Europe/the world don't like either these days. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 I can't imagine they would be assembling something in the UK that they can't sell there, or in the EU. They will meet safety and emissions requirements easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paime Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 How do EU regs fit with the philosophy of DIY mechanics? I know very little about ECUs, programming etc but that's why i love Defenders - you can do so much with them on your own with nothing more than basic tools and an excellent forum like this for guidance. Do EU rules essentially rule out that aspect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 Well, they are talking about having built in diagnostics available from the touchscreen that is on the dash of the vehicle, I forget where I read that, but yes, it is designed to be totally compliant with the 'right to repair' types over in the states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy50 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 12 hours ago, Bowie69 said: So many fallacies in this FB posts I don't know where to start. So that explains Land Rovers massive price tags , the huuuuuuge fines they pay for every car they produce 🤦🏼♂️🤣🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 At one time Land Rover planted so many trees for every car sold as part of their carbon offsetting. I prefer that concept to a tax imposed by the EU as atleast there is a direct environmental benefit from it. What they should do is buy land with the tax money in areas that would otherwise suffer deforestation. Stops them being cut down and is a future investment for a time when there is a machine to replace trees 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Remember the US has lax rules for things designated as trucks rather than passenger cars - they have lower safety & emissions standards than regular cars, and it's partly why their pickups are so popular in-country as they're artificially cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paime Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 On 3/12/2020 at 11:09 AM, Bowie69 said: Well, they are talking about having built in diagnostics available from the touchscreen that is on the dash of the vehicle, I forget where I read that, but yes, it is designed to be totally compliant with the 'right to repair' types over in the states. The idea of a touchscreen scares me a little bit but i'll reserve judgement. If they do go down that route then hopefully it has a robust cover on it otherwise i would have it smashed and covered in mud off the dogs in a heart beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 There's not much chance of getting a decent interface with just buttons for proper diagnostics software, whilst keeping it compact, I think it will work. Can't imagine that they wouldn't think of armouring it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paime Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 As long as i don't have to learn a new programming language just to retract the rear caliper pistons then i'll be happy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, paime said: The idea of a touchscreen scares me a little bit but i'll reserve judgement. If they do go down that route then hopefully it has a robust cover on it otherwise i would have it smashed and covered in mud off the dogs in a heart beat. In this day and age you can't really not have a touchscreen. Even if it is to plug your phone in and use Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. I want utility, but modern practicality does need to keep up with the times too. It is frivolous additional features it doesn't need. As for on board diagnostics. Well OBDII (On Board Diagnostics 2) has been a mandatory industry standard for decades, and allows anyone with an OBD2 reader to pull and read certain codes and clear them. All ECU's offer up a lot of data by default. I have a £5 bluetooth OBDII reader that will plug into any car made in the past 20+ years. A free app on Android called Torque (Lite) will let you see and clear standard codes, as well as see realtime data such as engine rpm, water temp, if the handbrake is on and loads of other things. Basically all this stuff will be there (and is there in every modern car) already. If they provide a way to view it without buying extra bits, then tbh, it is a very good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 They spoke more about detailed diagnostics, far more than you get from basic OBD2, which is very generic stuff and can be totally unrelated to the issue at hand. E.g. A mate got told his gearbox was gone, when in fact it was a high pressure diesel pump eating itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 I don't think a touch screen is a problem for things like diagnostics or satnav programming, so long as there are buttons for common things like controlling the radio, turning the lights on etc. People already do the diagnostics on an android stereo anyway but hopefully they will come up with a more user friendly front end. Either way it still doesn't get around the dodgy connection causing a false sensor reading, you still need to be able fault find. Be good if it had a full workshop manual loaded on, especially if you could print pages for when your laid under it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: They spoke more about detailed diagnostics, far more than you get from basic OBD2, which is very generic stuff and can be totally unrelated to the issue at hand. E.g. A mate got told his gearbox was gone, when in fact it was a high pressure diesel pump eating itself. Any diagnostics will only report logged problems. To report anything else would require additional sensors and then some sort of logical control analysis on top to make educated guess on the route of the cause. I can't see this happening. OBD2 has generic codes, but also manufacturer ones, so they can report on other items. You fully understand these codes you often need a factory spec diagnostic system. As a generical reader won't know what the code means. I would imagine this is more what they are alluding too. Have the factory diagnostics reader built into the vehicle and user accessible from a touch screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Cynic-al said: I don't think a touch screen is a problem for things like diagnostics or satnav programming, so long as there are buttons for common things like controlling the radio, turning the lights on etc. People already do the diagnostics on an android stereo anyway but hopefully they will come up with a more user friendly front end. Either way it still doesn't get around the dodgy connection causing a false sensor reading, you still need to be able fault find. Be good if it had a full workshop manual loaded on, especially if you could print pages for when your laid under it. There is no way of getting around a failing or faulty sensor. Which in my experience is the most common problem and the actual physical hardware is nearly always alright. You could have 2nd sensors to compare too, but increases the cost and complexity. As would diagnostics equipment on the actual sensors. As for control items, I agree. What vehicle use a touch screen to turn the lights on though? That's a new one on me.Volume control is often found on the steering wheel these days too, so that is your physical control button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 Essentially yes, dealer level diagnostics via a touch screen was what was being talked about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 I think there is a difference between dealer level diagnostics, dealer level diagnostics where you don't need to go on a course to understand what it's telling you and understanding how to diagnose a problem when you've changed the sensor which it says is wrong and the fault is still there. I'm all for it, just depends how well done it is. For the range rover I had a land rover manual which was about 2" thick. It told you the resistance to check between pin and sensor and so on so led you through finding the fault. It needs that information in it in the form of a pdf manual or something to be user friendly. Teslas have everything on the touch screen. Of course it's all automatic too so their theory is the car knows best and you don't need to touch anything anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paime Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Saw this on Linkedin this morning: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ineos-automotive_these-days-most-4x4-manufacturers-choose-activity-6646012320470433792-gIQt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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