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200Tdi into S2a LWB Safari


murphyclan

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It would appear, for what the OP wants, a TDi will be ideal. Cheap, easy-to-get grunt and if a set of ear-defenders etc  is the  acceptable compromise, and this is known  before going in, it'll work out great. I'm not anti-Tdi, it's just that because there's more driveable solutions, it defeats my reasons for owning a leafer. But I'm not everyone. As with Gazzer, I've a breathed-on 17H 2.5 petrol.

Edited by Landrover17H
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9 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

They are an improvement. But a bit like saying being hit with a cricket bat isn’t as bad as a baseball bat, kind of thing. 
 

Even in a 90 the Tdi’s are loud and unrefined. The 2.5 TD is much nicer in this respect. Although it is the only thing the 19J is better at. 
 

I’m not anti Tdi’s. if you have one in already in a vehicle. They are good power plants and I love the power delivery when tuned. But I’d personally not swap in another. I’d do something else. 

You can never make a Tdi smooth or quiet.  It’s the downside of the compromise.  A highly tuned 17H would be really nice - similar performance but quiet and smoother, but then you have the cost of the modifications (ACR are good value but it still stings) and the higher fuel consumption.  Plus diesel is a very safe fuel compared to petrol.

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My brother has a tdi in his series and sound proofing / deadening everywhere is absolutely key. He’s done the bulkhead in the engine bay and then the cab and then he a rubber floor mat in the cab. It’s acceptable for a Land Rover and not overly invasive. 

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Mine is tolerable, you can talk at 50, the bonnet and bulkhead are lined with 3mm of pitch/tar, like dynamat.

I need a Wright off road mat, but the bulkhead is getting religious, so I'm leaving be for now.

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Noise is a subjective thing: I've every device under the sun.  Wright-off-road matting is the least of it. Bitumen matting everywhere, stable-matts all over the rear, LaSalle headlining, RockyM door-tops helped wind-noise reduction, gearbox and engine-blanket, good door-seals, swiss-variant bonnet seals, twin-box optional exhaust and rubber-mounted everything. I even laoded-up the doors with mass. There's someone on here claims the quietest leafer. Maybe his is, but mine's damned good. There is no substitute for mass, ie: bitumen, and closed-foam atop. And yes, I messed with all the so-called improved engine-mounts, they 'help' a bit.

If you add that little lot up you might see how it's near a £2000 bill, and a lot of time and effort. However, I can tell you now, none of it kept my 200TDi quiet. It did improve things quiet a bit, but... As CD says " a bit like saying being hit with a cricket bat isn’t as bad as a baseball bat, kind of thing."

As 'Jason110' has it, you need to caveat first "It’s acceptable, for a Land Rover" but as said, noise is subjective.

If it's quiet and a conversation at 50, you're after, it's an impossibility with a 200TDi.

The thing with noise-reduction is that you have to do the lot. No one thing is a solution. Each 'thing' adds to the picture, and you'll never know which had the greatest effect. You'll be forever adding more, but you will get there. You’ll read on this subject by manufacturers and those that claim; I did this or that, and it worked. Sadly, no ‘one thing’ will work. You’ll need an all-points approach, and sorry, this follows the law of diminishing returns. Bitumen and stable-mats are the way. Here's some old pix of work in progress, and yes, that's a sheet of bitumen laying about ready for the next bout.

Soundproofing 08-07-20  01.png

Soundproofing 08-07-20  02.png

Edited by Landrover17H
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I can have a normal conversation up to about 65 in my with the Tdi, but it was so much nicer in the cab with the 12J, and the Lightweight had very little engine noise despite a complete lack of noise suppression - it was the tyres and the flapping of the rag top that made that noisy.  It’s all relative, and each owner will have a different level of what they find more important and what magnitudes of each facet are acceptable, from performance, noise, frugality and reliability.  Don’t forget that what may initially be added principally for noise reduction is also beneficial for heat insulation and often for cosmetic benefits, and even behind a 17H, the series transmission is still a bit coarse.

If a V8 was as frugal as a Tdi, I’d have gone that way - it’s a far nicer engine and experience.  The Tdi is undeniably harsh, but well set up, it’s not that bad as some make out.

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And there you have it, for another it's fine. This is so subjective, for every voice you see another opinion.  I run homefill thus it's much cheaper to run than any TDI diesel, petrol or LPG, but of course, there's still more compromises. There is no one answer.

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41 minutes ago, Landrover17H said:

And there you have it, for another it's fine. This is so subjective, for every voice you see another opinion.  I run homefill thus it's much cheaper to run than any TDI diesel, petrol or LPG, but of course, there's still more compromises. There is no one answer.

I'm about to fit my 12th 200Tdi and everyone has had a different sound. I find they change sound with fuel type. Vary in sound as they run through the 12k cycle prior to adjusting the tappets. With new shells, again they sound different. Even different oils affect the sound.

The difference in sound proofing and damping is enormous.. In a Disco 200, you can chat at 75/80...In a 110 maybe 60.  In my mate's Series 1 88", you need a motorcycle comms system at 30.

I like the general reliability of a 200, but I've often thought of going back to petrol. I have an open option to buy my MPi back. Something I'm tempted to do, most weeks. But I need to tow and to tow off tarmac. So I need a 3.5 tonne towing capacity and bottom end torque

As and when I go back to a Series, I'll most likely go petrol. Probably a 2.5 with a supercharger. A friend is converting a 2.25 to a 2.5 and has both a 2.25 Supercharger kit and a 2.25 turbo kit so I'll see what they are like. Or maybe an Mpi lump in a Series...

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The engine in the SW at the moment is a petrol 2286, right? Would it be easier to update the block to 2.5 with the ACR conversion? 

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It influenced me, and it's why I went petrol.

No point in having a "go anywhere" vehicle if you can't go into the centre of Bristol shopping!

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Pre 1980 you can go in ....

In my series, with no sound proofing, the 200 is fine - the noise from the gearbox is far louder than the engine.

One positive not called out here is the very low electrical dependency they have. For some people that simplicity is a positive.

I think you go with what you want - ‘do as thou wilt shall be the sum of the law’ as another fan of the 200 once said.

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We all know what our fairy-god-mother said:

The reasons for fitting any diesel LR engine is simplicity, relative ease of fitment, familiarity,  torque and economy.  However that last bit was created by our taxation and political push. It's pretty clear that it'll not going be wise to stay with diesel. It won't and can't be phased-out completely. However as the current crop of diesel vehicles start to find their way to breaker-piles, it  becomes politically easy to make diesel ownership difficult. It won't be the vote-loser it is today. Give it 5-6 years, and a 200TDi will be £50 of scrap. More so in something as desirable as a S2 109 SW.

Have you seen  prices for a decent 2.25, or god forbid a 2.5 petrol these days? Once upon a time you couldn't give 'em away.

As it stands the reason you'd put any diesel in, is because you can, or have to. I say Party on....

 

"Cinders, you shall go to the Ball"

Edited by Landrover17H
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I wouldn’t replace my Tdis with petrol.  Only electric would be worth the cost and effort now.  I’ve been following Jaunt, London Electric and a few others, and a lot of Series Land Rovers and a few Defenders and RRCs have been done with great results.  Once the batteries are cheap enough, I’ll bite the bullet.

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Yup, scuppered, and can't see too many converting a leafer to electric? The odd pricey classic yes, however it'll never be cheap enough to be mass-viable. Certainly not in the way, we had mass-TDi at one point. So that's er.. scuppered too. Batteries are never going to be cheap.

Edited by Landrover17H
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2 minutes ago, Landrover17H said:

Yup, scuppered, and can't see too many converting a leafer to electric? The odd pricey classic yes, however it'll never be cheap enough to be mass-viable. So that's er.. scuppered too.

You say scuppered without any backing information at all.  Why is vegoil no longer possible, and why do you believe that retrofitting electric drive will never be viable?  People are getting old Nissan Leafs for £5-6k, and transferring in all the bits they need to have a decent electric vehicle with little more expense than making up mountings, coupling and adaptor plate.  I don’t have the electronic savvy to do that, but there are several on this forum who do, and kits are already coming out to enable owners to replicate this without the electronic skills.

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