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That Oil Question Again .... MTF94


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Having Googled for probably 100 hours or more over the years on this topic and coming back over the same old posts over and over i still have trouble finding this liquid in anywhere else but the UK. All that said what do you think to this?

""""Introduction of MTF94 oil for R380 gearbox, suitable for 96,000 miles/5 years service.""""

Thats from General Instruction Number 11 in one of the MOD Technical Manuals. Link here.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/411647/20150311_FOI2015_02277_Annex_A_landrover_AESP_response.pdf

Now considering how bloody hard it is to get this would give me a lot longer to find something and stick it in the oil cans i carry around for just this eventuality. 

So does this HUGE mileage bare any correlation to the civvies instruction? 

 

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Caltex MTF 94 (the 94 is the year it was introduced) was made long ago and in most jurisdictions many oils are made that are its equal - Castrol Syntrans is a suitable replacement.

Edited by garrycol
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7 hours ago, garrycol said:

Caltex MTF 94 (the 94 is the year it was introduced) was made long ago and in most jurisdictions many oils are made that are its equal - Castrol Syntrans is a suitable replacement.

not really a suitable replacement but semi compatible.

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5 hours ago, Red90 said:

Where are you?  That affects what options you have available. There are many choices, but a lot of them are regionally specific.

Africa at the moment. The problem is getting it ! 

I was more confused about the change interval......

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As for the Smith and Allan i want a fully synthetic so i can go long on the changes as it so hard to get. That is also impossible to get outside UK.

I was more interested in the change interval quoted

Nothing anyone will mention on here is available in Africa. There are hundereds of internet opinions on various things. People saying i've used this and that and unless its MTF94 i'm not interested. You might recall these opinions costing me two gear boxes in the USA.

At the moment i have this LODEXOL MTF 75W-80 which is Texaco approved as a replacement. I have their compatibility list. Also MTF94 has been reformulated in January this year by Taxaco/Chevron. The specs being quite different but not excessively. Its thinner, slightly which might be something to do with the notchy second at cold temps. Its not quite as thin as DexIID though. I have the spec for this but cannot fathom where to get it !

The MG Rover stuff is what i'm going for and this is the BMW Long Life 2 fully synthetic MTF94 which i have not yet found the datasheet for. Its available from some Landy Shops. BMW 83 22 0 403 247 

The BMW stuff is fully synthetic so will be VERY shear stable.

 

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Between the 300TDi and the Td5 LR's recommendation changed from ATF Dexron IID to MTF94. Not sure why, since they're really not that different inside.

If you really want a full synthetic with long life, and can't find MTF94, maybe the ATF is a better alternative?

@ashtrans can probably answer this better too.

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Why not use ATF Neill and just change it more often? Say every 6k miles? Should be available easily, hassle to change but may be better than leaving less suitable oil in there for possibly longer periods? Last time I looked, Ashcrofts website still reccomends ATF for the R380 - not sure why as many others, including the LR spec, is for MTF94, but if Ashcrofts are recommending ATF then it cant be that unsuitable?

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3 hours ago, elbekko said:

Between the 300TDi and the Td5 LR's recommendation changed from ATF Dexron IID to MTF94. Not sure why, since they're really not that different inside.

Because before that point in time MTFs did not exist.....  They specified ATF because that was the only low viscosity lube available. In the mid to late 90s, MTFs started to be developed as most manufacturers moved to the use of low viscosity fluids in their manual boxes.  Today there are dozens of options.

 

2 hours ago, reb78 said:

Why not use ATF Neill and just change it more often? Say every 6k miles? Should be available easily, hassle to change but may be better than leaving less suitable oil in there for possibly longer periods? Last time I looked, Ashcrofts website still reccomends ATF for the R380 - not sure why as many others, including the LR spec, is for MTF94, but if Ashcrofts are recommending ATF then it cant be that unsuitable?

Ashcroft has found people have better shift performance with ATF. This results in less warranty issues.

 

3 hours ago, tweetyduck said:

Africa at the moment. The problem is getting it ! 

I was more confused about the change interval......

For Africa, I would not suggest an ATF.  It is lighter than MTF.  ATF is fine normally, but in places where you will be running a really hot box, it gets too thin. I'm not sure what is available there and you are best to get on one of the many African forums instead of a UK one.

 

3 hours ago, tweetyduck said:

I was more interested in the change interval quoted

Change interval is not a fixed thing.  It depends on many factors. Assuming you do not contaminate the oil, the main one is overheating.  If it is not overheated, it will last a very long time.  The only true way to know is through analysis. If I was in Africa, I would at a minimum stick on the stock high temperature switch to make sure you are not getting too hot. If you really care, get an analysis when you change and then you will know.

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2 hours ago, garrycol said:

Of course it is suitable - improves gearbox life and improves gear change.

Exactly which one do you think out of the 10 or so variations ? 

Not many of which are available in Africa but i will look. The V-Fe is too thin really as thats the one punted in Europe. Syntrans Z might work and is a better match but only Australia i think then there are the other variations. The Z varient is also much thinner a cold temps than most so thats a plus. Possible as they know it needs to survive Australian nights.

 

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I typed a really long thing on my phone which didn't post 😡

Anyhow. You would think ATF is the thing but its not. The countries with most Auto boxes only have incompatible ATF with modified friction and limited slip. The most widely available ATF in Africa isn't suitable. It says not to use in boxes requiring M2C33 F or G which the R380 does technically as that is IID.

So i've looked at 80 or so makes or oil but as as you know lost a gearbox to peoples recommended oil and then lost another to recommended oils but we decided, Dave and me,  that it was more likely a faulty bearing as i had Redline MTL in for only a few 1000 and then Mini MTF after that. It was however -20c many nights but this wasn't evident in the mornings with a standard notchy second. It was fine so we put it down to an early life fail. I rebuilt it on someones garage floor and it was fine although not rebuilt to spec. Not sure what oil i got for that rebuild i think it was specially ordered MTF.

You have to understand i do an Engine oil change every month or so. I cannot be doing the gearbox every time although i run currently under what i thought was the interval which the MOD think is much much much longer. And so the question about 90K 

Some people in Australia use BOT402 but its horrible. Motul 300 Gear is also horrible. Too thick both of them. Most of the Castrol ones are horrible. Theres a Revenol one in SA thats approved but its impossible to get.

I will carry on once i've gathered my thoughts.....LOL

 

 

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6 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

^ Another vote for Smith & Allen here.

I've never had trouble finding MTF94, it's used in enough Rover & Honda gearboxes.

its impossible to get now in Africa and Australia i'm told. If this is going to continue i'd ask why the hell they've reformulated it ? The new spec is different in all that matters. Not excessively different but still....

OLD MTF94 is 10.5 and 53 and 76000 (Thicker)

NEW MTF94 is 8.9 and 47 and 25000 (Thinner)

SYNTRANS Z 75W80 is 9.1 and 55 and 20000 (In-between but better in cold)

SYNTRANS VFE 75W80 is 8.1 and 40 and 14000 (Very thin almost to DII levels)

MORRIS ATF DII is 7.1 and 35.8 with no -40c figure as you'd expect.

COMMA MAVATF is 6.4 and 33  with no -40c figure as you'd expect.

Smith&Allen is 10.5 and 53 with no -40c figure....which is cheaky. Close to the original spec though....

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3 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said:

Can you not buy MTF from a Land Rover dealer, if there are any left in Africa?

nobody has it as SABS (South Africa standards body) never approved it. They want to approve every oil thats sold and they are, as with all down in SA, incompetent.

its never been available and when i ask people here i get very woolly answers about what they use. Really confused crappy answers.

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2 hours ago, tweetyduck said:

Is should also say that when i find something suitable is usually only available in 20 bloody litres !!!!

It will add to cost but cant you get Smith and Allen or anyone else to ship to an address you know you will be stopping at?

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2 hours ago, Retroanaconda said:

Can you not buy MTF from a Land Rover dealer, if there are any left in Africa?

Nope. Not really since 2012....but you could then it was just a RPITA but now impossible.

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24 minutes ago, reb78 said:

It will add to cost but cant you get Smith and Allen or anyone else to ship to an address you know you will be stopping at?

I'm flying back and might risk it in the suitcase.....

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