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Oh the shame of it, Ford does a better job of it than LR


SteveG

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3 hours ago, Naks said:

 

 

he's not even worthy of a punch. a bitch slap would be more appropriate, followed by a solid kick to the nads

I think he’s probably of that modern mentality that would resent your assumption of gender... 🙄

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35" tires stock on 17" rims.

Beadocks stock

Front and rear diff locks

Long travel suspension

95:1 crawl ratio.

7 speed manual or 10 speed auto.

100" and 116" wheelbase

Removable doors, roof, side panels, flares and much more.

Washable interior with sealed electrics and a drain to let the water out.

2/3rds the price of a Nufender. Nufender sales in North America will be very low.

Much like the Wrangler, they will encourage you to modify it.

 

Edited by Red90
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2 hours ago, Red90 said:

35" tires stock on 17" rims.

Beadocks stock

Front and rear diff locks

Long travel suspension

95:1 crawl ratio.

7 speed manual or 10 speed auto.

100" and 116" wheelbase

Removable doors, roof, side panels, flares and much more.

Washable interior with sealed electrics and a drain to let the water out.

2/3rds the price of a Nufender. Nufender sales in North America will be very low.

Much like the Wrangler, they will encourage you to modify it.

 

It is quite lovely , the clear model  heritage is there to see , it would be great to have it here in Euro-world . Will it pass the blandness standards for new vehicles in the great State of europloop ? Probably not , way too individual , I'm still hoping though .

Steve 

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39 minutes ago, steve b said:

It is quite lovely , the clear model  heritage is there to see , it would be great to have it here in Euro-world . Will it pass the blandness standards for new vehicles in the great State of europloop ? Probably not , way too individual , I'm still hoping though .

Steve 

I kind of hope we don't get them. Overpriced and underspecced is what we will get. Just like the Mustang and Wrangler. Car companies are too greedy.

Import a LHD one.

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57 minutes ago, reb78 said:

He looks like just the type who will buy the new defender. I cant remember when I last saw someone in a roll neck...maybe he is covid ready - he can just unroll it up over his face. Very prepared.

Maybe he wears it to prevent rope burn from the likely lunching he’d get from classic LR enthusiasts. 🤔

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  • 3 weeks later...

I must admit the current crop of "Land Rover models" leaves me cold, while the new Ford Bronco looks interesting.

It will be interesting to see if the Ford Bronco is indeed a robust get-through-come-hell-or-high-water vehicle, or merely a car styled to look that way.

Can it eg. be hosed down and degreased internally in the cargo compartment without any carpets or electrics being harmed?

What is the real wading depth for daily use? After having been bogged down in a muddy field, with water and mud in the footwells, will it be a small matter of hosing out the mud and hanging the floormats to dry, or will it need new carpets and a major electronics refit?

Is there a sensible thought-out location to put extra batteries and an uprated generator to drive a winch? Same for locations for sandmats, shovel, highlift, chainsaw, jerrycans etc.

What is the actual towing capabilities in deep mud? Can it recover a fully loaded trailer or another vehicle bogged down in mud?

 

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1 hour ago, tychoS said:

I must admit the current crop of "Land Rover models" leaves me cold, while the new Ford Bronco looks interesting.

It will be interesting to see if the Ford Bronco is indeed a robust get-through-come-hell-or-high-water vehicle, or merely a car styled to look that way.

Can it eg. be hosed down and degreased internally in the cargo compartment without any carpets or electrics being harmed?

What is the real wading depth for daily use? After having been bogged down in a muddy field, with water and mud in the footwells, will it be a small matter of hosing out the mud and hanging the floormats to dry, or will it need new carpets and a major electronics refit?

Is there a sensible thought-out location to put extra batteries and an uprated generator to drive a winch? Same for locations for sandmats, shovel, highlift, chainsaw, jerrycans etc.

What is the actual towing capabilities in deep mud? Can it recover a fully loaded trailer or another vehicle bogged down in mud?

 

There is a video of the interior footwell being hosed down, as well as the drain plug. However I think it should be noted, not even in a traditional Land rover would you have a high pressure hose being used inside the cabin. I suspect more a jug of water is likely to be used than a full on hose.

As for your other points. Will it really need an additional battery for a winch? Probably not.

 

And as for towing, sorry but in the US this is the wrong sector for that. They want you to buy a pickup truck to tow. Not a recreational 4x4. I know it kind of looks utilitarian, but it isn't. It is purely recreational and lifestyle.

I believe the US market tow rating is 3500lbs (1578kg), the same as the Wrangler. However, physically I suspect it is more than capable of towing 3500kg, it just isn't officially rated for it.

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2 hours ago, elbekko said:

Can't help but think the new Defender would've walked up that without much fuss.

I think it would be unrealistic to think a new Defender (or any Defender) would have walked up there.

It is super difficult to tell what an obstacle is really like on video, but you can clearly see, the boulder on the right of the screen is the size of a vehicle, the one on the left almost twice the size. i.e. it isn't exactly a tame or easy obstacle.

You can also see the Bronco keeps all its wheels on the ground with relative ease. And that it could spin all 4 wheels at the same time (due to front/rear lockers).

These two points demonstrate the suspension flex and drive train very well. The front approach angle and general ground clearance is also well demonstrated.

Really the limiting factor was the physical grip on the rocks by the tyres. Which would have no relation to it being a Defender or not. Different tyre brands may work better, but again, this is nothing directly related to either vehicle or car maker.

 

I would sat, the front IFS seems to flex very well on the Bronco, considering it isn't a live axle. Compare with the new Defender here, which is clearly on a far tamer obstacle, yet still makes somewhat of a hash of it:

 

The Defender suspension just doesn't flex. When raised up, it seems to become very solid. And the vehicles has a weird bobbing up and down motion. You can see it also keeps lifting the front wheel, or letting it go very light with no weight on it. Also Defenders lack axle lockers in most cases, with only a rear locker being optional. Note how hard the TCS has to work, i.e. needing wheel slip/spin in order to make all the wheels turn. The use of the TCS also compounds the lack of suspension flex and makes the vehicle bob up and down even worse when power is applied, hence why it struggles for forward momentum and traction.

 

I'm not saying the new Defender isn't capable. But it clearly has some short comings when viewed objectively. And oddly, I think the off road footage thus far of the new Defender, it seems to look less effective off road than a Discovery 3. Which just seemed to have so much better suspension movement.

Lastly, in order to give the Defender the approach angle and ground clearance, you need to run it in the raised suspension mode. Having it in its normal ride height would likely cause all kinds of other grief with it getting beached or hitting the bumper. The Bronco is in its ordinary ride height off road as it doesn't need to lift itself higher.

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1 hour ago, tychoS said:

I must admit the current crop of "Land Rover models" leaves me cold, while the new Ford Bronco looks interesting.

It will be interesting to see if the Ford Bronco is indeed a robust get-through-come-hell-or-high-water vehicle, or merely a car styled to look that way.

Can it eg. be hosed down and degreased internally in the cargo compartment without any carpets or electrics being harmed?

What is the real wading depth for daily use? After having been bogged down in a muddy field, with water and mud in the footwells, will it be a small matter of hosing out the mud and hanging the floormats to dry, or will it need new carpets and a major electronics refit?

Is there a sensible thought-out location to put extra batteries and an uprated generator to drive a winch? Same for locations for sandmats, shovel, highlift, chainsaw, jerrycans etc.

What is the actual towing capabilities in deep mud? Can it recover a fully loaded trailer or another vehicle bogged down in mud?

 

Good heavens! You are pretty demanding 😁

Any towing capabilities in mud will be down to the truck's own weight (to get the power down), the tyres (unlikely the factory spec tyre will be quite what you are hoping for), and the goopiness of that particular mud. Our reverred Defenders don't fare all that well at this task in factory guise either.

 

Wading is also an issue that is more complex than whether the carpets and electrickery can shrug it all off.
As we all know the Defender lets enough water in to keep it on the bottom of pretty much any body of water. Newer trucks that have better door seals are more likely to float, and hence get washed downstream.

 A friend's Rangey got washed off a river crossing path due to strong currents and driver error. It took a couple of days servicing and was back on the road again. It was  Mazda diesel powered btw ;).
It's unlikely that any modern vehicle, 4x4 or otherwise could be fixed that easily or in the middle of nowhere.

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