200TDI into LWB SIII 109 - fit or sh#t?

[xychix]

Yes, let's see where this is going.

Here's the start of this all, a 700 euro Disco I. Had to little time and a no autotransporter to pick it up.
Well, picking it up was possible with the help of some plates of the seller. Back at home no time to make an unload plan as the misses needed me to go and get 1200kg building blocks for her project and the Disco needed to get off the trailer NOW... as in Misses NOW!.

I promise I'll be more carefull the rest of the conversion.
I'll likely run into a ton of issues as it is said to NOT fit due to the turbo fouling the chassis on a 109 AND the steering setup on the LHD. so double the fun!

Especially when the going gets a bit awkward I'll try and film, just in case I do ruin the project than at least I can show people how NOT to...
 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by xychix

[steve b]

Have faith dude , I'm sure some sideways thinking will help 

Good luck and keep us updated 

Steve

[xychix]

experience 0, creativity 7+

We'll see where I end up. I'm excited to even lift an engine out of a car for the first time in my life

[Gazzar]

I think you'll love it.

I like mine, a lot.

The discovery timing case is better for your vehicle than the defender, but if you can get a defender manifold, or a TDI 300 manifold, you'll avoid a lot of problems.

Some say the turbo can be twisted on your manifold to clear the chassis.

[steve b]

25 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

 

Some say the turbo can be twisted on your manifold to clear the chassis.

That's what I'm wondering ? out through the inner wing in front of the bulkhead leg ? 

I do have some spare 300 manifold stuff if that is what is needed 

Steve b

[Gazzar]

I bought a defender manifold. Easier, not expensive.

[xychix]

9 hours ago, Gazzar said:

I bought a defender manifold. Easier, not expensive.

I've seen defender manifolds not to crazy expensive at paddocks and co indeed. (ERR678)

I'll first 'hang' the engine roughly in place and asses (stubborn, i know. Sometimes that hurts, sometimes it helps) 

if / once I get to 
- buying a 200 def manifold
- 300 manifold
- rotating turbo

I also wan't to go over exhaust options before spending money.

I'm also cleaning and putting away my 2.25 hoping I can somehow get it to a landrover parts place,  once my setup is running and approved, so it will be used for the better. Considering sending the broken injection pump to one of the overhaul places as a giveaway (assuming it's worth the postage)

Edited July 30, 2020 by xychix

[Nonimouse]

You can easily 'clock' the turbo - its a very simple job, however changing the manifold to a defender/300 or a TD* is worth while

* This is only something I have been told, not actually experienced first hand. 

[Snagger]

From what I understand from several attempts by others, the 200 Discovery compressor housing needs rotating (clocking) to fit an 88 chassis, but that will not work on a 109.  It’s worth a try before buying more parts, though, as it was internet wisdom that a Tdi would turn any LT76 into a Claymore...  received wisdom is not always correct.

I have a Discovery engine, which means I could use SIII mountings to the chassis (or have coiler axles - the inclined diff causes the front prop UJ to hit the 12/19J/Defender engine mount under moderate braking), but I used Defender manifolds and turbo.  With the rest of the ancillaries, a 300 manifold and turbo package would probably be easier as well as cheaper and should fit better between the chassis rails, not overhanging the left foot well, so leaving more space for the steering.

You need bigger engine and transmission mounting rubbers than the SIII petrol units, and the diesel rubbers are a bit hard.  Britpart 2.5 mounts are like plastic, and the Gen Parts stock are made of the wrong grade too, and are far too hard, transmitting awful amounts of vibration and noise (especially at idle).    I got some of Glencoyne Engineering’s specially made mountings, which are quite soft and should be good.  It took a lot of faffing about and they were twice as dear as the type I previously bought from him, which worked very well and are sold by Charlie Emberton on his eBay shop.  I’ll try to find the name he trades under.  But you’d need four of those as you need them for the transmission too - I on,y did the engine mounts, leaving the square SIII diesel rubbers on the transmission; two new rubbers made a world of difference from the Gen Parts rubbish, but four will transform it.

Found a link - https://protect-eu.mimecast.com/s/cxsMCYWA6iLnJ9mjH0CW8q?domain=ebay.co.uk

[Gazzar]

Charlie ECU is the eBay shop for the soft mounts.

[FridgeFreezer]

Sad to see another Series being ruined by a TDi

[Gazzar]

It's got a dead engine. And is in the EU where there isn't a ready supply of series engines at semi reasonable cost.

[Bowie69]

I was under the impression that LHD 109 + TDI is quite the problem to fit, steering shaft/turbo clearance, if I remember right?

[Gazzar]

The disco TDI 200 manifold probably won't go, the defender or 300 might. 

Or, he could run it as a Di. Which isn't unbearable, just not as much fun as having the turbo.

 

[xychix]

10 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

The disco TDI 200 manifold probably won't go, the defender or 300 might. 

Or, he could run it as a Di. Which isn't unbearable, just not as much fun as having the turbo.

 

this has crossed my mind as intermediate solution.
That would allow to keep my 109 exhaust system

 

[Gazzar]

Yes, it's okay, but you do need the new exhaust mounts.

And you will need to trim the battery tray.

[Snagger]

39 minutes ago, xychix said:

this has crossed my mind as intermediate solution.
That would allow to keep my 109 exhaust system

 

Glencoyne Engineering has information on his website showing how to get the Series manifolds to fit for the DI option.

[xychix]

lifted the 2.25 out of de series today AND managed to lift the 200tdi after cleaning it in place.

Well the 200 is split from the bellhousing, radiator and intercooler removed. most hoses removed. 

Still have to connect fuellines en a few electrical details but after grinding open the tunnel I managed to get the engine seperated from the box!

never lifted an engine, now 2 in 1 day! (a tad proud)

[steve b]

good work , get some pic's when you can 

 

Steve

[taurion]

Before you go too far with your engine change do check that it will be acceptable to your CT man with  a CG collection.

In the last few months the legislation on modifications has become tougher.... original or no CT is what will happen unless you know your man very well.

The government is desperate to  eliminate our old vehicles by any legal means  and make us buy a pseudo -eco electric car to keep Peugeot and Renault in business.

If your CT controller could not squeeze your old engine through on emissions will he be blind to a different type of engine?

[FridgeFreezer]

11 hours ago, taurion said:

The government is desperate to  eliminate our old vehicles by any legal means  and make us buy a pseudo -eco electric car to keep Peugeot and Renault in business.

And people here in the UK complain about our rules, we've got it good!

[Gazzar]

50 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

And people here in the UK complain about our rules, we've got it good!

We have no idea. None.

[xychix]

19 hours ago, taurion said:

Before you go too far with your engine change do check that it will be acceptable to your CT man with  a CG collection.

In the last few months the legislation on modifications has become tougher.... original or no CT is what will happen unless you know your man very well.

The government is desperate to  eliminate our old vehicles by any legal means  and make us buy a pseudo -eco electric car to keep Peugeot and Renault in business.

If your CT controller could not squeeze your old engine through on emissions will he be blind to a different type of engine?

he DID allow me trough CT. placed the sensor 30cm's behind the exhaust, with that setup it just passed. Thereafter he had to open all doors to make his station usable again   And the engine number was never there. It's grinded away.... (He is ok  ) 

Asked him if an alternative engine would be OK, he said yes no issue at all if it's in the same power region.... 200di is thereby safe I'd guess.. Will first try and get a 200tdi trough if I can. I've got 4 years left and he will allow me to do 'unofficial' test to see if all seems good.

However it is crappy that they did this pollution test back to 1980! (my 109 was first registered 1980, februari...) 

Edited August 7, 2020 by xychix

[xychix]

some pictures of the process so far:

out with the old, cutting up the disco to free the 200tdi and the 200tdi in full sunshine

[taurion]

Sounds like you have a realistic  CT man, treat him very kindly.

My 6cyl diesel needs the gas sensor a little way from the exhaust !! and it works then.

Bon courage.

FridgeFreezer,  France LOVES paper and administration and does not like people who have independent ideas and think out of the ' collective box'.