200TDI into LWB SIII 109 - fit or sh#t?

[FridgeFreezer]

36 minutes ago, Nonimouse said:

Yes, but The Commons House Commitee on Classic cars did prove that the industry is worth 5.5 billion year and that was in 2015

Indeed, and all the posh nobs / Tory donors aren't going to take kindly to the government trying to scrap half their collection on environmental grounds... they can all afford a posh new EV/Hybrid to commute in no problem but their barn full of (increasingly valuable) classics is not a viable target for all sorts of reasons.

[Gazzar]

Oh. Good.

[Snagger]

I don’t think there is much risk of ICE vehicles being forcibly scrapped.  I do see them as being made uneconomical to run as a main form of personal transport through taxation.  That way, the hobnobs bet yo keep their toys, the treasury gets its revenue and the environmental campaigners get their victory.  It’s just the public who suffer, either through punitive fuel charges or having to shell out for an unsubsidised EV.  But the public good is seldom a factor in these decisions.

[Bowie69]

3 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

The classic scene I suspect will fall by the wayside as being not worth the bother

Quite, we are destined to become the steam enthusiasts of the future.

Classic cars are just about at their peak at the moment, all down hill from here, I reckon, once the batteries for EVs are sorted, for sure.

[Nonimouse]

21 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Quite, we are destined to become the steam enthusiasts of the future.

Classic cars are just about at their peak at the moment, all down hill from here, I reckon, once the batteries for EVs are sorted, for sure.

More the Peanut Oil Enthusiasts

[FridgeFreezer]

44 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Quite, we are destined to become the steam enthusiasts of the future.

Classic cars are just about at their peak at the moment, all down hill from here, I reckon, once the batteries for EVs are sorted, for sure.

I dunno, once batteries are "sorted" the classic scene gets very attractive as you can throw a 2nd hand EV motor and battery pack into almost anything with a lot less pain than an equivalent modern engine/drivetrain swap, and youv'e got a very usable reliable and cheap to run classic car that nobody can really object to.

[Bowie69]

Possibly, but then they will be daily driver cars, and not classics any more....

[Arjan]

Think this will be a bit different from country to country..

But I'd love to have an Electric SII !

[FridgeFreezer]

2 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

Possibly, but then they will be daily driver cars, and not classics any more....

I dunno, there's enough unoriginal classics out there where an EV conversion that can be charged up and rolled out for the odd weekend bimble with zero tinkering and low maintenance would be a very attractive proposition. EV conversion would make great sense for a lot of "weekend warrior" trucks / occasional laners / trailer queens etc.

[Snagger]

I think it’ll be possible to preserve the bulk of the classic character but just change the engine to electric.  Fit a motor of comparable torque and all that you should really notice is the quiet, the less frequent gear changes and the lack of refuelling.  Classics are great fun, but fiddling with carbs or distributors is not most people’s idea of a good weekend, even among the classic enthusiasts, so if affordable classic conversions become common, I think classic ownership could conceivably increase as the maintenance effort and running costs reduce.  Time will tell, but companies like London Electric Cars and Jaunt are already making SII/SIII conversions using Nissan Leaf and Netgear Hyper9 motors, with similar performance on paper to a Tdi (which equates to 2030% more in the real world, apparently), so apart from the battery capacity and cost, it’s already viable.

[FridgeFreezer]

Performance is never the issue, it's range / charge time and will be for the forseeable.

[Landrover17H]

We're rather wandered from the' fit or sh#t?' question, but I get round it thus...

Not really sure why electric is so 'on-trend'. I suppose it's a bit more Guardian-reader than my approach. Some of you have read my posts, so know how I do this. I've been filling-up and charging my vehicles via what's readily piped into our homes, and doing this for nearer 10 years. It's a helluva lot cheaper to do and run than some mincing electric conversion. The insistence for electric, when most of us have gas piped-in baffles me. First had my 'light-bulb-moment' when I saw this being done with my local ice-rink's Zamboni, and whilst most fork-lifts use LPG, the bigger fleets pump the same as me.

Still, takes all sorts. Maybe I'd grasp why it must be electric when I get round to de-platforming Germaine Greer, campaigning against 70s TV sitcoms, and have my gender-reassignment surgery sorted. Until then...

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Landrover17H

[xychix]

I'll for sure go down the diesel route as you need to be a licensed car manufacturer to turn a car into an electric car in France.

It has been on my list though.

[Landrover17H]

Now we've truly hi-jacked this thread, but I wonder why French authority prevents you doing this, seems odd? But even if you could, it'll cost you £3-5000 in cells alone. And just like a mobile phone 2 years later the thing will be under-charging thus running shorter times than new. By 5-6 years those cells are junk. Hence £3-5000 gets trashed? Then you do it all over again. My way, you do it almost once, I concede cylinders need swapping-out every 20 years, and they're not cheap, but half the price of cells. You're doing this every 20 years, not 5, thus i put it to you, the cylinders are roughly eight times cheaper. And you don't feck your LR doing it. I could remove my set-up inside two hours, and you'd not know it was ever on there.

Swapping a battery over in your mobile or throwing the whole phone away works when we're talking £30 for a battery or even £300 for a whole phone. But when £5000 is trashed...

Nope, I don't get this electric thing, it 'sounds' good, yet borders on stupidity.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Landrover17H

[Gazzar]

There are a few electric cars that are approaching a decade old at this stage.

I read recently that the batteries are not degrading at the rate expected.

Remember that the charging systems in some of these cars are a lot more sophisticated than in a phone. Active thermal management, coolant circulation and other battery minding techniques are used to keep the magic beans happy.

So, valid point, but a ten year life is viable.

[Snagger]

3 hours ago, Landrover17H said:

Now we've truly hi-jacked this thread, but I wonder why French authority prevents you doing this, seems odd? But even if you could, it'll cost you £3-5000 in cells alone. And just like a mobile phone 2 years later the thing will be under-charging thus running shorter times than new. By 5-6 years those cells are junk. Hence £3-5000 gets trashed? Then you do it all over again. My way, you do it almost once, I concede cylinders need swapping-out every 20 years, and they're not cheap, but half the price of cells. You're doing this every 20 years, not 5, thus i put it to you, the cylinders are roughly eight times cheaper. And you don't feck your LR doing it. I could remove my set-up inside two hours, and you'd not know it was ever on there.

Swapping a battery over in your mobile or throwing the whole phone away works when we're talking £30 for a battery or even £300 for a whole phone. But when £5000 is trashed...

Nope, I don't get this electric thing, it 'sounds' good, yet borders on stupidity.

Barring accidents, most early EVs are good for half a million miles or more, save for the batteries.  Newer EVs are good for for that including the batteries.  That makes for very low maintenance costs and longevity of the vehicle.  They’re aiming for one million mile batteries, so that’ll be private vehicles that would last a typical owner’s driving career, but is intended to serve for years working as taxi or shared ownership, doing vastly more mileage per time measurement.  It’s going to be far cheaper than ICE for medium or long term ownership.  There is still a matter of high up-front price and the potential range and charging issues for a significant minority of users, but those are getting better.

 

As for why professional qualifications are needed for EV conversions in some places,, it’s the same reason as needing professional certification of LPG conversions - safety.  The cells individually push out a couple of volts, but they’re wired in parallel batteries of series connected cells that each push hundreds of volts, typically 400-500.  The risk of electrocution not only to occupants and the mechanic, but also emergency services staff dealing with EVs in accidents are significant if the work isn’t right, and frankly, you’ve seen the standard of a lot of home maintained vehicles, haven’t you?

[Landrover17H]

Life of everything else has to far improved. I'm not sure mileage is the issue, the chemical cocktail that is a modern battery still breaks-down in 4-5 years, and if we can do a million odd miles in that period, I'm sure the battery is good for it. But if we've only done 10,000, the a battery is still kaput, no? On the flip-side, the electric motor sits barely run in.

[Snagger]

Modern lead acid batteries seem to last only that long, but lithium ion batteries last much longer and the degradation is very closely linked to how hot you get them and how often you fully charge and fully discharge them (they last far longer if you keep between 20% and 90% charge).  

[FridgeFreezer]

4 hours ago, Snagger said:

Modern lead acid batteries seem to last only that long

I must be buying dodgy batteries then as my last Bosch/Varta lasted ~10y, and the battery in my 2008 Jag appears to be the factory original one by the date code.

[Snagger]

I didn’t have much trouble other than with a Varta in my RR, but it may have been damaged by the alternator before that failed a while before the battery became problematic.  But down herein the Gulf, you only get three or four years out of them - my 2014 Volvo is on its third, and it gets plenty of long runs on school drops and shopping.  It’s normal for them to die so quickly here, probably because of the heat.  But I’ve read a lot of complaints on the forum about batteries only lasting five or six years in European conditions.

[Landrover17H]

I buy the biggest Yuasa I can get in my rear-sited battery-box, from Halfords. I never get more than 4-5 years out of mine, but I suspect my alternator is not kind to them. I pay the Halfords 14-20% premium over anywhere else because they  tend to honour their warranty - which gets used! A Smart-charger is recommended, old skool chargers do more harm than good.

I can't see a battery in an EV doing ten years or a million miles (whichever is sooner), but maybe? Cells are not computers/ TV sets / washing-machines that become ever twice as fast, for half the price.  We've a box of chemicals, these degrade, and the prices for that finite raw material can only increase. Nonetheless,  I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Landrover17H

[xychix]

Hahaha, a 'step out' to electric vs. ICE made totally sense in this topic. But debating the quality of Lead-Acid batteries might be double offtopic  (but you're welcome, slow thread anyhows).

Next week I hope to have time to make a few more baby steps

- 200tdi exhaust manifold needs to come off.
- brackets for the 2.25 exhaust manifold will be made
- hope to be able to remove flywheel housing in order to tet fit that to the box and drill needed holes.

If I get that far in the limited time I have I'm happy.

[Arjan]

You're off to France - Me off to Holland.

Have FUN !!

[o_teunico]

Built in Japan and sold as Mitsubishi, Peugeot and Citroen C-Zero.

64hp and a tad more torque than a diesel 2.25. A written of donor could make a great starting point for a conversion.

Unlike a 300+hp Tesla motor swap, maintaining similar to stock power will make it legal to retain original brakes an no major modifications will be needed.

 

[Bowie69]

On 10/6/2020 at 6:37 AM, Landrover17H said:

I can't see a battery in an EV doing ten years

Lots of 10 year old Pious's out there still running around, and that is REALLY OLD battery tech now. Lithium, with careful battery management handled in the software, will easily outlast NiMH.

Oh, and less use of superchargers!