Transfer box?

[CowGirl]

A few days ago my 1995 300tdi defender starting making this horrible loud noise when driving. The more I accelerate the faster the ticking goes. I’ve taken it to the garage and they said it needs a new transfer box and will need a new gear box as well. What are the signs I should get with a problem transfer box and should I get a second opinion?

thanks

[ballcock]

If the transfer box has gone it can be replaced without changing the gearbox, Is the garage you went to Land Rover friendly? A ticking noise could be a universal joint gone on a prop-shaft. I would get a second opinion from somebody who deals with Land Rovers.

[FridgeFreezer]

I'd second the second opinion before spending any money - after all, what are the chances that both the gearbox AND transfer box fail at exactly the same time?

You can check a lot of this stuff yourself very easily if you're willing to get underneath and give a few bits a wiggle - and even more if you're willing to get a couple of spanners out and do some very basic spannering.

[CowGirl]

9 hours ago, ballcock said:

If the transfer box has gone it can be replaced without changing the gearbox, Is the garage you went to Land Rover friendly? A ticking noise could be a universal joint gone on a prop-shaft. I would get a second opinion from somebody who deals with Land Rovers.

Apparently he trained with Land Rover years ago but to me he doesn’t seem to helpful in knowing what’s what..

I was hoping it was the prop shaft as that’s what I first thought as it’s find accelerating stationary 

[Snagger]

They want to supply both boxes?  Tidy little earner for them.  Unless they gave you a very good reason with proper diagnosis as to why both need replacing or rebuilding (like a damaged transfer box and finding the gear box main shaft splines very worn), then they’re having you on.

I’m sure one of our savvy members would be willing to take a look and give a pretty good diagnosis if you can get to them, which should save a lot of money from dealing with unscrupulous garages.  Where is Banes?

[CowGirl]

7 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I'd second the second opinion before spending any money - after all, what are the chances that both the gearbox AND transfer box fail at exactly the same time?

You can check a lot of this stuff yourself very easily if you're willing to get underneath and give a few bits a wiggle - and even more if you're willing to get a couple of spanners out and do some very basic spannering.

That is true. I’ve only owned her a couple of months as before she hasn’t done many miles in the last couple of years. 
What would I be testing/looking at underneath?

[CowGirl]

3 minutes ago, Snagger said:

They want to supply bot boxes?  Tidy little earner for them.  Unless they gave you a very good reason with proper diagnosis as to why both need replacing or rebuilding (like a damaged transfer box and finding the gear box main shaft splines very worn), then they’re having you on.

I’m sure one of our savvy members would be willing to take a look and give a pretty good diagnosis if you can get to them, which should save a lot of money from dealing with unscrupulous garages.  Where is Banes?

The reason he gave was “I think it sounds like the transfer box and the gearbox doesn’t sound too great either” 

Near Bristol 

[Snagger]

Most modern music doesn’t sound too great to me, but that’s not reason enough to scrap it! 🤔. He might be being straight, but if the box is behaving properly, the fluid isn’t getting unduly rapidly scorched or contaminated, and the output splines are ok, then it’s probably not urgent.  Besides, it’s not easy to isolate noises from one box or the other without separating them.

Again, a local experienced forum member or a a mechanic or trials scrutineer from a local LR club would be able to give an honest assessment.  These are old vehicles, and many have been abused or neglected, but I’m very wary of garages, especially non-LR specialists, sucking their teeth and listing lots of “suspect” big-ticket assemblies with extremely vague comments.  No offence intended, but when a woman takes a car in, they try even harder to rip the customer off because they see women as having no technical understanding (not much different from most young men these days).  Without checking the vehicle myself, I don’t know how straight the mechanic is being with you, but a lot of what you said has raised warning flags for me.

[Snagger]

There is a very good rust proofing supplier and service business near Bristol called Buzzweld.  Craig (owner) is a huge Land Rover fan, so I’m sure he could take a look and listen for a beer or two.  I don’t know of any other garages down there x it’s not my region, but there are a couple of forum members in that neck of the woods I’d trust explicitly.  I won’t volunteer them, but if they step forward, you can trust their judgement.

[Mo Murphy]

I wouldn't take my 90 near a so called mechanic for anything ...

Crawl under, remove your prop shafts and inspect the UJs. There are lots of you tube videos on how to do it and what to look for and lots of help here if you have questions.

My money is on a UJ.

Mo

[Sigi_H]

Why is nobody asking for mileage and age of the boxes? Although his testimony is unlikely, this is important information. I would check the drive shafts and wheel bearings. Often noise from them is wrong lokalised

 

[steve b]

mileage is subjective - well maintained and serviced with careful use - both will last several 100k's of miles . 

3 years in a quarry in low with 5k miles could be utterly worn out ...

More to the point there is no way even the very best specialist LR mechanic could diagnose that level of spend with just a listen , bearing in mind it is still driving .

I would strongly suggest a second opinion and never going back to this "expert" - snagger's suggestion would seem worthwhile - a quick call by phone to ask for help .

Top suspect is a dry/rusty prop UJ , often only detectable with the prop off . Replacing the whole propshaft might be easier if you are not familiar with changing UJ's and if the sliding joint is worn or stiff too then recommended . The noise is often described as a mouse squeaking . 

Keep us posted and welcome by the way 

cheers

Steve b

 

[Snagger]

14 hours ago, Sigi_H said:

Why is nobody asking for mileage and age of the boxes? Although his testimony is unlikely, this is important information. I would check the drive shafts and wheel bearings. Often noise from them is wrong lokalised

 

Not really.  A high mileage unit that has been used sympathetically on mostly road conditions and regularly serviced should be in good order.  A low mileage unit that has been waded, thrashed and infrequently or never serviced will be in bad shape.  Age and mileage have little bearing on condition of Land Rovers, though normal cars they do tend to have more influence.

[Snagger]

13 hours ago, steve b said:

.

Top suspect is a dry/rusty prop UJ , often only detectable with the prop off . Replacing the whole propshaft might be easier if you are not familiar with changing UJ's and if the sliding joint is worn or stiff too then recommended . The noise is often described as a mouse squeaking . 

 

It is quite a likely suspect.  When I’ve had very bad UJs, they sounded to me like someone stirring a cup of tea.  A more scraping squeak occurred when I had a transfer box output shaft mud shield slightly skewed and it was scraping the flange or prop nuts - it made much more noise than I’d have expected.  I also had a lot of banging and shuddering once from a hand brake that was disengaging but dragging on the drum, again very noisy for such a minor amount of pressure and contact.

[paime]

Does it make the same noise when you're coasting at speed i.e. no strain on the drivetrain by having your foot on the accelerator? Might be worth getting up to speed then putting your foot on the clutch to see what the noise does. Also stick it in neutral and report back. It could be something as simple as a propshaft UJ. Defenders are like giant acoustic chambers and noises can migrate across the structure disguising where its actually coming from.

[Snagger]

Can you get the noise to appear at low speed, perhaps using the brakes to give the transmission something to work against instead of accelerating hard?  If so, you might be able to get someone to walk beside he car and narrow down the source area of the noise.

My wife’s 2009 90 had what sounded like a clattering rear door lock on the overrun deceleration through 35-30 mph which transpired to be the rear diff (cross pin in the diff kept shearing it’s roll pin, so the cross pin would slide to one side and hit the head of the pinion gear).  We found that by her driving quiet roads and me clambering around in the back, so a similar principle of finding the source to narrow down the diagnostics.