Serious Battery Recommendations !

[FridgeFreezer]

33 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

In the challenge scene, yes, where they run two Bow3 motors capable of pulling 1000A, yes, you *NEED* twin batteries. On a vehicle with a single winch, for occasional use, one battery will be fine. Even a 9000lb winch can draw up to 300A when fully loaded, so no alternator will keep up, so that is a bit of a red herring.

Especially as Nige's winch is hydraulic.

[Ed Poore]

@Hybrid_From_Hell - Nige just pop up to Manbat in Guildford (on the left as you go in, opposite Kwik Fit in the little industrial estate between the train station and Ladymead) - they've got plenty of batteries for you to choose from there and I popped in to get a battery and cut me a deal just for being polite . In all seriousness at least the guy I spoke to was knowledgeable and can help you out.

For reference you can relatively easily squeeze two 019 batteries into at least a 300Tdi battery compartment side by side if you put a highly calibrated spacer (piece of wood) in the dip. I think the 019 size comes in from at least 830CCA - I think the Yuasa I have in the 110 is at least 900CCA so you can get 1800CCA there - hope your wiring is up to snuff! Pretty sure I found some 1000CCA as well.

If you think you've got problems there was a pilot boat that my company installed a data-logger onto. Half the boat was two Marine Diesel CAT engines, quarter of the boat was batteries to start them and the other quarter was fuel tank. Starter motor contact was 2 inch solid gold...

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

13 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Especially as Nige's winch is hydraulic.

Center one  isn't 🤣🤣

[miketomcat]

9 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

@Hybrid_From_Hell

If you think you've got problems there was a pilot boat that my company installed a data-logger onto. Half the boat was two Marine Diesel CAT engines, quarter of the boat was batteries to start them and the other quarter was fuel tank. Starter motor contact was 2 inch solid gold...

You have to crane the battery's into most boats over 60 foot. 

Mike

[Eightpot]

The big MoD Hawker Enersys batteries used for starting tanks, helicopters and FFR kit have a lot of thump - sell them quite often at Withams for cheap.  I've had a couple in the workshop for ten years now still going strong and will start anything that's capable of starting. 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Eightpot

[FridgeFreezer]

All this talk of CCA over 1000, I wonder how much the starter is actually capable of before exploding in a shower of cogs like TSD's did.

My starter draws ~225A on the first crank, dropping below 100A once it turns over... anyone else actually measured theirs?

[Snagger]

No, but my 12J and Tdis would always start on the first crank, within a second, even when they had stood for days in that -17 cold snap a few years back, using regular old Banner 82AHr light commercial batteries.  As long as the engine is in fair condition (not mint), and the fuel system is airtight, you just don’t need that enormous capacity or cold cranking amps.  Not unless you want to crank the engine over when you’ve filled it wading, anyway...🤔

[Bowie69]

Interesting, if slightly sarcastic read about CCA:

https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/experience/2014/01/what-does-cold-cranking-amps-cca-mean

Anyone had a -18C start recently?

[miketomcat]

My brother's race car was a pig to start and required a lot of effort. BUT it was an A series on a Weber carb with a very lumpy cam. Thus we had to warm the plugs before starting or they would foul instantly. 

So I suspect nige has issues with his starter/wiring or timing/fueling for start up. Oar at the ready   given nige has something to do with mega squirt I would think there would be something that could be done with the latter. The former could probably be improved by an adult looking at it. so whilst he probably does need a new battery I'm pretty sure any battery that can crank a diesel for a minute can persuade a 5.2 V8 into life. 

Mike

[Mo Murphy]

It's a Rover V8, 4 AA batteries should turn it over, Nige !

 

Mo

[TSD]

2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

All this talk of CCA over 1000, I wonder how much the starter is actually capable of before exploding in a shower of cogs like TSD's did.

My starter draws ~225A on the first crank, dropping below 100A once it turns over... anyone else actually measured theirs?

CCA is a usefull way to compare batteries, but doesn't have much meaning in terms of 'real' amps unless your engine takes exactly 30 seconds to start.

Can't put my hand on the 'on engine' measurements I have right now, is this 'non-rolling road' curve of any interest ?

This is a typical 2.2kW tdi starter motor - data supplied by the motor rewinder. Maximum stalled current was 730A (but the wiring and battery should be sized to limit the current below this).

 

[Ed Poore]

4 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

All this talk of CCA over 1000, I wonder how much the starter is actually capable of before exploding in a shower of cogs like TSD's did.

My starter draws ~225A on the first crank, dropping below 100A once it turns over... anyone else actually measured theirs?

But this is Nige - bigger is always better 

[Jon White]

My TDi starts first flick of the key. Let’s just say that Nigel’s V8 “takes a bit of cranking” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

Probably something to do with the petrol being years old, and the plugs all fouled cos it only ever moves in and out of the garage......🤔

 

1 hour ago, TSD said:

CCA is a usefull way to compare batteries, but doesn't have much meaning in terms of 'real' amps unless your engine takes exactly 30 seconds to start.

Can't put my hand on the 'on engine' measurements I have right now, is this 'non-rolling road' curve of any interest ?

This is a typical 2.2kW tdi starter motor - data supplied by the motor rewinder. Maximum stalled current was 730A (but the wiring and battery should be sized to limit the current below this).

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Jon White

[Bowie69]

42 minutes ago, Jon White said:

Probably something to do with the petrol being years old, and the plugs all fouled cos it only ever moves in and out of the garage......🤔

Potentially the cranking PW then....

[taurion]

Measured last week ambient temp about 25°C

750 amps for about 2 seconds to start a 3.6l six cyl diesel  Two Varta 72Ah 800 CCA in parallel , all connected with 50mm2 cable.

[smallfry]

When I worked in the Agri/Plant industry starting, even in the cold was not normally a problem unless there was something wrong with the engine, and I am talking about 7 litre and upwards 6 and 8 cylinder diesels.

There has always been some inherent problem with the Rover V8. ISTM that no matter what fuel and ignition system it has, they have never been good starters, and always seem to need a fair bit of churning before they will start.

I had an American Ford 400 V8 (6.6) engine with 10.5 CR that started a LOT easier than any Rover V8 I have had, and have a Lexus V8 here that only needs flick of the key to start 

[elbekko]

7 hours ago, smallfry said:

There has always been some inherent problem with the Rover V8. ISTM that no matter what fuel and ignition system it has, they have never been good starters, and always seem to need a fair bit of churning before they will start.

Que? Mine starts up pretty rapidly, unless it has been sitting for weeks, then it takes like 2 revs extra...

[ThreePointFive]

Likewise. Even the very knackered old 3.5 I had would start quicker than I could 'blip' the key. It wouldn't always stay running, mind you.

[landroversforever]

On 8/31/2020 at 10:52 AM, FridgeFreezer said:

 stop lugging round extra weight for no reason.

 This is Boiler-plate Barker we're talking about here!  

On 9/2/2020 at 5:18 PM, miketomcat said:

My brother's race car was a pig to start and required a lot of effort. BUT it was an A series on a Weber carb with a very lumpy cam. Thus we had to warm the plugs before starting or they would foul instantly. 

So I suspect nige has issues with his starter/wiring or timing/fueling for start up. Oar at the ready   given nige has something to do with mega squirt I would think there would be something that could be done with the latter. The former could probably be improved by an adult looking at it. so whilst he probably does need a new battery I'm pretty sure any battery that can crank a diesel for a minute can persuade a 5.2 V8 into life. 

Mike

I was going to say something similar... I can't see how even a special a rover v8 is going to need any more cranking oomph than a tdi. What is the CR Nige?

As for battery recommendations, I've been very impressed with Odyssey batteries I've used. Had a PC1500 in the 90 before I stripped it and was like I'd fitted a new engine without any compression when I first dropped it in. Can't remember which model it is, but a friend has an Odyssey in his kit car... the battery is about the size of a large box of Paxo stuffing. That turned over the 2L zetec all day long while we were working out a crank sensor issue.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Its an oddball of an engine !

The injectors run at 62 PSI, its 5.2 V8 and 13.4 Compression and a wild cam with Valve over lap

It takes around 10 x seconds cranking to Fire when its cold and been stood.

The starter has 50mm welding cable as do the earths, and a new starter, basically because its a JED Full race its a bit of a piggy to fire !

 

Hopefull, sunday I am allowed to play on it and fir the new twins

 

N

[landroversforever]

Interesting! Quick google and a 200tdi injector is about 4000psi and 19:1 compression. Would be interesting to see what the 5.2 needs to turn it in comparison to a 2/300. 

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Its more the time it takes to crank / prime and fire up, its a weird engine !

[Nonimouse]

Nige

I've been using Numax Marine Starter/Deep Cycle batteries for nigh on 20 years. I run two in the Discovery, one as started, one as aux - they are CXV31's

 

But they have a big brother https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/product/numax-cxv35-mf/

I like them because they are reliable, well priced, small for the power and they have yet to let me down

what I use - https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/product/numax-cxv31-mf/

I have a Bosche monster thing in the Dub. It was from Halfords, so cheap with the card and it has a 7 year warranty. The Dub has two air con units - one electric and two Webasto type heaters; so needs a flippin huge battery. 

[mmgemini]

Well the battery on my Defender has been dieing slowly. This week I decided to stop the charging by charger nd buy new. I ordered and collected, a nice Bosch, now my suprise was seeing that the old one was also a Bosch. Mind you they dont last long nowadays. The one I took off has only been on eight years

[ThreePointFive]

I ran a Numax as a second battery for years and it would have served just as well as a main battery. The only thing that killed it was (bad) storage for 8 years and wanted to find the same again with the two terminal types but that was harder than expected.

For the small price increase of the "bigger" one (which has the same dimensions and easily fits in a Def battery box), two of those makes too much sense even if I only very occasionally need the second for running camping accessories or winching.