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Automatic conversion


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Hello, next item - Automatic, I want/need to convert my 90 to auto, I have read the 200tdi isn't very good when fitted with a auto box, I also understand the 300tdi auto box is the same length as the manual but I'm not sure if that's the case with the 200tdi box.

Any help or info gladly received  😉 

Edited by Davidpaul
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Can only comment on the 300TDi auto as that is what I have, carried out the conversion in 2016 so has been on for 4-years and I love it.

Yes, the 300TDi & 4HP22 is the same length as the 300TDi & R380 so it is an (almost) straight swop. I used an Ashcroft kit so there was no searching for parts or refurbishment necessary. That said, the kit comes with flexible pipes to the oil-cooler whereas I preferred to use Disco solid pipes from the gearbox all the way forwards to the front crossmember and then had them modified by Pirtek to mate to the transmission oil-cooler. If you look my more recent photo of the engine / transmission being lifted out onto my new chassis (taken just a couple of months ago) you can see how they run alongside the lower N/S edge of the engine.

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8 minutes ago, Litch said:

Just noticed you are not very far from me. Feel free to PM me if you wanted a test-drive to see how it feels.

So you’ve positioned the selector above the centre seat location and the transfer lever in the tunnel?

Do you have any more photos of the centre console installation before seats etc were fitted?

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What sort of mpg do you get, Litch?

Was it Les who did a 200Tdi auto in his grey 90?  I haven’t seen posts from him for quite some time, but as I remember it, he was very happy with the results of that engine and transmission combination.

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"So you’ve positioned the selector above the centre seat location and the transfer lever in the tunnel? Do you have any more photos of the centre console installation before seats etc were fitted?"

The transfer lever is in the standard location (new mounting included in kit) and the shifter is determined by the console but it all falls nicely to hand. Found an old photo of the console without the seat.

"What sort of mpg do you get, Litch?"

Definitely dropped off since the conversion but still not too bad. Luckily I always calculate my fuel consumption every time I fill up regardless of what vehicle I am driving so over the past 21yrs of owning the 90 I have got to know what different journeys & driving styles do to the consumption. General driving around I now get about 26-28MPG (before it rarely dropped below 29MPG) but on the motorway it is still the same (no surprise really) at about 32-33MPG.

One thing I did have to do was fit a 1.4 transfer box. When brand new (ROTW spec) I had a Disco 1.2 transfer-box fitted and it suited the 300TDi on 265/75x16's perfectly, in normal driving I never had any need to go above 4th but then on the motorway 5th gave relaxed cruising but with enough get up & go to overtake where necessary. When fitting the auto I wondered whether this would work as the auto has a taller final drive than the R380 but I thought I would give it a go. After 12-months I decided that it wasn't a good combination as it was locking up at 55MPH and it was affected by long hills or strong headwinds so I fitted a 1.4 and it transformed the experience, it now locks up in top at 50MPH and will pull top gear in any conditions. 

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17 minutes ago, Litch said:

"So you’ve positioned the selector above the centre seat location and the transfer lever in the tunnel? Do you have any more photos of the centre console installation before seats etc were fitted?"

The transfer lever is in the standard location (new mounting included in kit) and the shifter is determined by the console but it all falls nicely to hand. Found an old photo of the console without the seat.

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If you get a chance could you measure the distance between the front edge of your seatbox and the centre of the transfer lever aperture in the console please?

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Thanks.  That is surprisingly little economy drop on normal driving, and it’s good to see high speed driving has little effect with the lock up.  Good information about the heating - I had looked at those combinations and also the effects of diffs or tyre diameters.  I found that the ZF, a 1.22 transfer case (LT230 or BW) and 4.1 diffs have a similar final gearing to standard Defender specs.

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4 hours ago, Davidpaul said:

I understand the actual gear box is the same as the 300tdi, it's a ZF4HP22, the rare piece is the mounting plate that attaches to the rear of the engine.

Be aware that the ZF 4HP22 has different shift characteristics depending on whether it was originally fitted behind a 4 cyl diesel or a petrol V8. I imagine a box from a 300 Tdi would suit you best performance-wise. I can't comment on bell housing lengths etc 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/2/2020 at 9:21 AM, Davidpaul said:

Hello, next item - Automatic, I want/need to convert my 90 to auto, I have read the 200tdi isn't very good when fitted with a auto box, I also understand the 300tdi auto box is the same length as the manual but I'm not sure if that's the case with the 200tdi box.

Any help or info gladly received  😉 

Thank you

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On 9/2/2020 at 3:12 PM, Snagger said:

Thanks.  That is surprisingly little economy drop on normal driving,

About 10% by the numbers. Although reality will depend on how you drive and where. If you aren't in lock up much and are heavy footed, the gap is likely to be bigger. As they claim 29mpg average with the manual, I'd assume they are on the more economical end of driving style and use. I'd suggest a MEAN average for a manual Tdi would be more akin to 24-27mpg across a wider sample of people. Which would put an auto one at more like 22-24mpg average. Which would tally with the real world results I've seen with multiple auto Tdi's over the decades.

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20 hours ago, Les Brock said:

I'm still alive .......😆

I think there are still a load of pics on my build thread, happy to post any you need

 

 

What does it cost on road tax, being SVA/IVA, Les?  I still fancy doing it to my 109, but the VIN points system and tax exemption are the main reasons I’m torn.

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