Shackleton Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Ok to hell with this messing Guys I've done some research and made a few enquiries in terms of whether I'd be perpared financially - and the answer is yes so I'm seriously considering trying to get a TDV6 into my '73 RR. If anyone knows any reason why these two should not be wed let him speak now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Ok to hell with this messingGuys I've done some research and made a few enquiries in terms of whether I'd be perpared financially - and the answer is yes so I'm seriously considering trying to get a TDV6 into my '73 RR. If anyone knows any reason why these two should not be wed let him speak now... 1 is a Range Rover the other a diseasel nuff said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 1 is a Range Roverthe other a diseasel nuff said A diseasel that's smoother, quieter and more powerful than an RV8... If you think you can handle both the mechanical and electronic challenges (it's a modern engine with lots ECU control and probably gearbox integration and all sorts of other bits - probably not publically documented), it would be an interesting project that could well finish up with a fairly economical and civilised and very rapid rangie I wouldn't underestimate the amount of work and money involved, though - you're stepping out into the unknown here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 I know - EXCITING! err 'fairly' I would have said very economical. I'm totally guessing but in terms of a electronic feed from the gearbox it isn't more then a 'park' and 'neutral' switch for idle control. Unless theres traction control but I'd simply decommission that. I wouldn't be expecting to use the intended gearbox, sweet as it may be, it'd be more expensive then having a plate made up for one of the other proven units. Plus there would be the need to change the front axle at least, I've read here that the front prop comes out of the wrong side of the g/box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 err 'fairly' I would have said very economical. Perhaps - my parents bought a RR sport TDV6 last year and love it apart from the fuel consumption (about 28mpg, most extra urban and driven gently). They were used to getting 35-40mpg from a 300Tdi disco. That said, it still seems to do 28mpg if it's driven with a heavy right foot, and the RRS is a pretty heavy vehicle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 I've found a real helpful guy in Costa Rica (yeah I know) with a TdV6 Defender 90! (using the original defender gearbox, and he's got another pal with the same kind of deal but with an R380 which seemingly works even better) Between us we're gonna start a thread either here or on landrovernet.com (he chooses) for him to answer my questions and post pics of his conversion! Now alls I have to do is find €4.5k to buy the lump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 £4.5K is absolutltty going to rule out the use of the words "Fairly expensive" then innit Look forward to seeing this build up keep us posted, when do you hope to start on this then ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Thankfully the lump is about €4.5k (thats euro) - £4.5k sterling would F me in the A big time I'm about €2k short in terms of 'expendible' cash and I'm assuming this lump I've found won't hang around long. If I can figure a way of at least guaranteeing this cash soon then I can get into my overdraft and I suppose asap... Oh and just to say, I had it a little wrong, the TdV6 90 is using the Jag version with the ZF box which is interesting in itself. I haven't confirmed but that means presumably he doesn't have the tweeked sump of the LR and his lump probably has twin turbos. The second one is a 110 and it's using an R380 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Shackleton, I have some experience with this engine in various applications - both Jag and LR (but not PSA yet), in fact i'm building one now. If you need any tech or dimensions etc then PM. Cant promise i'll know all the answers but I can guarentee that theres someone i know that does Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Wow, this is picking up momentum. Lewis thats fantasitc, PMing now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 This looks very exciting. Go for it, these engines should become more plentiful over time and it could be the next retrofit when 200TDis dry up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 Hi fellas, thought it was update time... Well I've been hiding out, soul searching, visiting shamen and generally trying to get my head around my options. To give you some idea of how undecided I've been, in the last 48hrs I almost bought either of two soft dash tdi RR's instead of this project. But that would have been wrong. I'm 100% committed now. The Big Show, my '73 RR will be TdV6. So whats the state of play? Well I am - and have been waiting for some poor soul to write off their D3. There are some specialists on the lookout for me (they have been since you last heard from me) and where as have had phone calls they've been about auto's, I must have a manual version as after mega research and the help of Lewis et al I know the auto configuration will be just too complicated to deal with. The Costa Rican fella went to ground, I didn't chase him at all but I'm thinking I'm gonna have to get specialist help for the likes of the conversion plate anyway (DirtyDiesel??? hint, nudge) so do I need him. So I'll be taking delivery of a whole (albeit compacted) D3 sometime in the hopefully near future and at that point the engine conversion will commence. I say whole as obviously there's no way I'm getting this thing running unless it's running when I get it in the first place. In the mean time I'll be needing help. Why? With what? Well real quick let me tell you the plan. I'm gonna drive around the world (planet earth) - or set out at least, how far I get is another thing. The Big Show is my wehicle. I don't have to tell you it's merits but it's downfall in one sentence is that it's 34 years old. So I have to make it effecient and like new. I need to do everything from rebuild the drive train to figure effective sound proofing solutions. I haven't been into LR's for long enough to have hoovered all the experiences of others with various ad ons, accessories, aftermarket upgrades, y'know what works and what doesn't so thats where you come in. I'm reaching out here I'm not hugely experienced in engineering so don't expect amazing photo's of gifted work like the stuff in Dirty Diesels mog thread (hint, nudge, shag leg) but I took over 400 photo's during my injection conversion purely for my own reference during the job so I'll keep the forum updated with pics and progress. Well thats it, if you're already bored stop now, otherwise I'm about to wax about my plan for the build.... So I'm out for a big adventure (this build being a major part of it) but I'm not going to be getting all kitted out with roof tents and massive racks (although a everyone likes a nice rack ). I'll be sleeping on the back seat - mainly cause I'm only 6' and being an early model the back seat is flat and comfy, but also as an incentive to meet new people and scab the odd bed for a night. The plan is to surf my way around. As in watersports, I surf and kite surf / kite board. I'm not very good and thats part of why I'm going - if I don't do it now it'll never happen. In terms of large gear I'll be taking a few changes of clothes, gerry cans (plastic and steel), tools, safety and recovery gear, two spare wheels, two surfboards and a kiteboard, a few kites and probably a land board dismantled for stowage. It's gonna be a very clever build so that most if not everything will fit in the boot or on the roof, I don't want to be rearranging everything every time I want to get in the back or pack up and drive. So extra fuel cells behind the sills, security boxes sunk into the floor where possible, head lining or inner roof low profile shelving/cargo nets etc. I'm going to leave one spare wheel as normal and mount a second on the roof a la YVB 150H. Thats the only thing going on the roof bar the surfboards and I may even hang the shorter one inside on the passenger side. Mechanically all I want is reliability and for the drive train to be able to deal with the 325lbft torque the V6 will throw at it. I have to get the LT95 rebuilt and the O/D fitted to it (preferebly by someone willing to let me help/watch). It's over engineers by all acounts so should be up to the job which leads me to the prop shafts, diffs and half shafts which I'll have to take under advisement - do I need uprated shafts, ARB lockers etc. Suspension will all be renewed as will brakes which will stay standard unless I find I have to utilise D3 parts to integrate ABS sensors for road speed signals - a nightmarish prospect as I've no interest in ABS I just want the lump to run right. Once I've gotten past the main engineering hurdles and I have the V6 mounted and driving the wheels the whole thing will get stripped down and the chassis galvanised and painted. At that stage everything else will be cleaned, painted, coated etc and the body will be prepped and resprayed. New seals all round, security film on the glass and new body mounts. The interior will be leather clad, sound proofed and fitted with a complementary stereo, fold away table, stowage wherever possible and maybe blinds or curtains. This of course is a diluted version of whats going to happen and the provisions I'm making for the vehicle but all will unfold in time. I'm daunted but excited, and I need to be done like yesterday but hey there's no way of rushing it. And while I wait for the D3 I should be tackling all the drive train issues so I'm askin... Any thoughts on whether replacing standard drive train parts like for like will be sufficient or what should I be looking at considering the power of the TdV6. Oh and anyone know a g'box specialist in Ireland who could be trusted with a LT95? George, neck stuck out n'all PS please criticise at will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Glad to hear its progressing IMHO For the axles, replace your shafts with 24spline 90 V8 in the rear, go for GKN Driveline AUE2522 equivilent CV's in the front with 24spline shafts, fit 4pin diffs from a P38 Range Rover front and rear For the gearbox rebuild the consensus seems to be Ashcroft, wrong side of the water for you but if you want it done right . . . If you end up having to mount ABS/wheel speed sensors then forget mounting all six that are needed, just fit one and have all six channels reading from it, Its been done like that before However, If you're getting a whole Disco with a box, either auto or manual, why not use the box as well - you could fit Izuzu axles to accomodate the transfer box offsets, or G-wagon axles with a front diff flip, or 404's, any of these options may work out cheaper than upgrading/rebuiling your landrover axles and box HTH Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Whilst I like the idea of installing a decent diesel in an early Rangy, surely tring to go around the world with a TDV6 conversion is nuts? Hardly anyone outside of the Land Rover dealerships understand it and I can't see many of them being too keen on dealing with problems with a conversion, particularly in Outer Mongolia, especialy if they can't understand a work of English. All the best whatever you decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 Fair point, and one I've considered - but - remember this won't be a brand new engine, there'll be mileage on it before I take delivery and assuming I put at least a few thousand hard test miles on the conversion before leaving the country so that the mechanical engineering aspects of the conversion are truely as over engineered as I hope to achieve - then what's left to fail; electronics. I've trawled across disco3.co.uk and those guys haven't experienced anything that is either relevant given the conversion, or any more worrying then any other engine might encounter. So how do I get around electronics failing? Fit something that doesn't rely on them massively; 200tdi. I don't want to step on any toes here but the 200tdi is just not economical enough, not given the paltry power it produces. And there's no point in me trying to hide the fact that a large part of my wanting the TdV6 is the power. Yeah it's gonna be tricky as hell and to some minds a total liability but I'm only half thinking with my mind. What can I say! Anyway back to the electronics and the guy in the yurt in Mongolia scratching his head. Would he be any better off with a Td5? Cause thats the only other option I see, I borrowed a pals '03 Defender hard back crew cab for a 10 day surfari around west Ireland a while back and truely loved the engine, but I'd struggle to go Td5 when the refinement and power of the V6 are available. Again the enthusiast side of me prevents me entertaining any ideas of a Madza or some such conversion, and I've seen them and heard them anyway and it's not for me. Adventure - you can't have it without taking chances. What about Ted Simon - around the world in 1973, ON A TRIUMPH! Fine its not a massively complicated machine but going 200 miles on a Tiger was taking a chance I'm not gonna roll myself in buble wrap and have the resulting package air freighted from point to point. So nuts yes but good nuts, I do like nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 Cheers Lewis Re Ashcrofts, guess which is the only gearbox they don't rebuild... they are however selling new old stock LT95's! God wouldn't I love a six speed box, aren't there LR axles from something else that would work though? I want to stay on Rostyles, I don't want the car to look any different then a factory 1973 RR. Which I suppose poses problems with road speed and ABS sensors right? Thats great news about the sensors too. Wait a tick if I'm going the keep the gearbox route then wouldn't I just use the Disco axles - it'd sure solve my ABS problems!. Which begs the niaive question is there a way of making the disco 3 axles take standard Rostyles? I get the feeling the answer is 'not without leaving you with road speed problems' So who knows about wheel track. Is it measured from the inner wheel edges or from the outer edges or from the centre of the wheel or the drive flange? Cause the disco obviously has much wider wheels but it seems the track is wider also; Discovery 3 Track (rear) 1 612.5 millimeter = 63.484 251 969 inch (front) 1 605 millimeter = 63.188 976 378 inch RR Classic Track 1 485.9 millimeter = 58.5 inch (front & rear) George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Wait a tick if I'm going the keep the gearbox route then wouldn't I just use the Disco axles - it'd sure solve my ABS problems!. Which begs the niaive question is there a way of making the disco 3 axles take standard Rostyles? I get the feeling the answer is 'not without leaving you with road speed problems' Disco 3's don't have axles !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 don't nobody put a spanner in my hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Neils rights, no axles for you You could use P38 front axle and D2 rear axle - that would give you the diffs in the correct place(ish) for the ZP 6HP26 g/box from the disco3 How is having jap axles underneath the car gonna make it look any diffrent fom a boggo RRC? So what theres an extra wheel stud, no-ones gonna notice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 That's abig stack of engineering you have set yourself there dude..what about the TGV 2.8 Tdi? much more power and torque and still relatively simple and LR based. Funny what you said about Ted Simon because when did the trip again (book is out now) he chose ...A R80GS BMW carbs good simple cdi... there may be a clue there B) ....... I could be biased tho I love my 200Tdi and my R80GS as well Good luck with it what ever you build and just as important I hope your travel plan comes together cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 Lewis, it's the wheels man the wheels I'm a fop and I want my rostyles. Or did you mean no ones gonna notice the extra studs randomly poking out of the spokes of the rostyles. Did the D2 ever have rostyles, is the PCD the same, I'm thinking of the Defender aren't I. Seems I'm putting the cart before the horse here anyway. Is anyone here smart enough to know how to figure out how the V6 would perform pushing the car through the LT95 anyway? And I'm not talking about how slow/vague the changes would be smarty pants. Steve sure F it, if it's not different I'm not into it so roll on the task. Yeah I love my R1200C, that said the ABS hasn't been active in the last two years cause I knocked it out on a beach in France and I'm too stubborn to have some overcharging BMW monkey plug an Atari 2600 into it just to press reset... Anyway screeching the front tyre of a 250kg bike coming into junctions turns heads Anyway if you all think I'm mad then you don't want to know that the original plan was to take the R12 around the world. I'm in video production and wanted to film the whole thing. Then McGregor and Boorman beat me to it. EDIT: Hey thanks for the good wishes btw Steve Lewis - check the photo, then you'll understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I know what bloody rostyles are!! No the D2 never had them To make them fit disco2/P38 bolt pattern you would need adapters, AFAIK these are not commercially available so they would need to be custom, and if you are having custom adapters made then why not have them made to fit Jap or Merc axles instead of the weaker D2/P38 variety ? To make your g/box fit the Lion, you wil need - custom flywheel, custom bellhousing or bellhousing adapter, clutch of appropriate size and clutch fork to suit. Google a company called Rakeway, they undertake this kind of work and produce high quality items. They are just up the road from me (not that thats any use to you ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 That's a picture from a dealership near me. He is a bit of a LR nut and as you can see has restored that classic to original condition. Tis lovely I tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 You're in Norway then! Yeah it's lovely, it nearly made me wanna give up when I saw it and my one certainly isn't a resto project. I've been thinking about this whole drive train thing and it's all getting way off the point, sure from an ultimate machine that would allow me exclaim 'LET'S OFFROAD' portals and all the HD gubbins would be great but I ove my RR for it's natural ability, space and looks. I bought it to get me onto remote beaches at most and with lots of space to throw a wetsuit on inside. I'll talk to Rakeway about the V6 to LT95 engineering and then look at a pair of 4.2 LSE axles. I know the 4.2 had 200bhp but I can't find the torque figure, I doubt it was 352lbft but then I'm not going to be stretching the V6 to its limits tackling serious offroad. I'll just be on the motorway and the odd bit of slow speed beach use. THe only thing I'll be worried about is the overdrive but I suppose I'll just have to go easy on it. Lewis why wouldn't I be able to use the original V6 flywheel and clutch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Lewis why wouldn't I be able to use the original V6 flywheel and clutch? Its too big for the LT bellhousing I think, also you need the correct spline on the clutch for the gearbox. You'll probably end up with a V8 LT95 clutch with a v8 sized flywheel but with Lion bolt pattern None of tha axles I suggested were portals, except when I said Mogs as a joke. My point is this - if you are going to the effort to swap your axles for later LR then why not do a little more work and have stronger non-LR axles? LSE axles are just standard Land Rover stuff, nothing special about them and barely stronger than your current axles Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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