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V8 Injector Upgrades


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Spotted this on another forum and thought it may be of use for some of the people on here...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=8&t=1885095

It details some newer/better drop in injectors that are much more modern than the standard (ancient) lucas ones, so should in theory provide better fuel atomisation and possibly a bit better economy...

 

Quote

Standard injectors:

  • Application: All Rover V8 Land Rover & TVR models running the Lucas 14CUX system
  • Land Rover part no: ERR722
  • Flow: 200cc @ 3.0 bar
  • Impedance: High (16.2 Ohm)
  • Known to max out around 285hp if sticking to the 90% duty rule at the standard 2.6 bar


Four port grey body injectors:

 

  • Application: Vauxhall Opel Omega & Vectra 2.6i & 3.2i V6 2000-03. Cadillac CTS 3.2 2002-04
  • Vauxhall part no: 93170386
  • Bosch OEM part no: 0 280 156 045
  • Flow: 208.9cc @ 3.0 bar
  • Impedance: High (14.5 Ohm)
  • Good for 310hp @ 3.0 bar


Twin port brick red body (Vectra) injectors:

 

  • Application: Vectra B, Astra, Omega with x18xe & x20xev engines (1995-2002)
  • GM part no: GM 90501588
  • Siemens OEM part no: 5WK90761
  • Flow: 250cc @ 3.0 bar
  • Impedance: High (14.2 – 15.3 Ohm)
  • Good for 343hp @ 3.0 bar

 

Edited by =jon=
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Last set I paid £10 for an entire top end at Billing :ph34r:

Mind you, that's the joy of MS - you can swap in any injector that will fit and just re-scale the REQ_FUEL value to suit.

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I have a couple of sets of these lying about in the garage after having moved onto some other bosch ev6 style injectors. They worked well and made a noticeable difference to the afrs I could idle at etc before getting lumpy compared to the standard Lucas jobbies.

They were quite clicky sounding though! 

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8 hours ago, Quagmire said:

I have a couple of sets of these lying about in the garage after having moved onto some other bosch ev6 style injectors. They worked well and made a noticeable difference to the afrs I could idle at etc before getting lumpy compared to the standard Lucas jobbies.

Do any EV6 style injectors drop straight in? If so that brings some more options.. I have a spare GEMS fuel rail and injectors somewhere, might have to do some investigation...

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In theory any injector that fits in the fuel rail and isn't ridiculous impedance or flow should work - sticking to ~15 Ohms will be fine. I bought an Audi V8 fuel rail to make a test rig with, ERR722's fitted in that so there's another option.

Too high a flow rate and it's impossible to accurately make a short enough squirt at idle to get things stable, the injector spends more time opening & closing than actually properly squirting fuel.

 

A lot of the V8 specific MS ECU's I build I leave out the low-Z/PWM flyback protection etc. as it's not needed with Hi-Z and it's another thing to go wrong, so it's always wroth checking what's fitted inside your ECU if you're swapping to low-Z injectors. On a V3 board, if you have Q3 & Q11 fitted you've likely got flyback clamping, if Q9 & Q12 are fitted and R37 and R38 are there (rather than jumpered out) you've got the full PWM current limiting.

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8 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

 

Too high a flow rate and it's impossible to accurately make a short enough squirt at idle to get things stable, the injector spends more time opening & closing than actually properly squirting fuel.

I think a lot of that has gone away with modern injectors and the improvements in spray - my little 4 pot 1.8 turbo is happy idling on 660cc injectors (on MS3), plenty of people are running 1000cc injectors with no problems (mainly in the US where E85 fuel demands +30% fuel). There's virtually no point in going much bigger than standard in a LR though!

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6 hours ago, =jon= said:

Do any EV6 style injectors drop straight in? If so that brings some more options.. I have a spare GEMS fuel rail and injectors somewhere, might have to do some investigation...

Yes they do- I'll dig out the part numbers. I found an extremely useful spreadsheet online that detailed all the specs of Bosch ev6 and some later (ev14?) Injectors. I managed to find some that had the same body length as the original hotwire ones, but with the same spray pattern as the shorter Thor ones- they were from a rover road car (black bodies). I also found some that were used in Alfa's (orange bodies) that spray pattern is not technically correct but they seem to work excellently in my Rover P6 anyway!

* Excuse the state of the P6, it's been off the road for a year while I have slowly rebuilt and fitted an sd1 lt77 to it in amongst family life with two kids. It's taken longer than I would have liked!

 

IMG_20200918_140333.jpg

IMG_20200918_140339.jpg

Edited by Quagmire
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Here's the Bosch injector spreadsheet that I used:
 
 
I looked up the injector specs used on the Thor setup (0280155787) - so flow rate, spray pattern and angle etc then filtered the spreadsheet to find injectors that have the same (or similar) characteristics but with the required length. As you probably know, the Thor injectors are quite a bit shorter than the hotwire/Gems ones. The big stumbling block was finding ones that matched the right specs and then had the groove for the metal retaining clip that holds them into the rail. That took a bit of google imaging and rummaging through the 5ive-0 website to find... 
 
There are a few that match, but to cut a long story short I found that the Bosch 0280155884 (black)units are a good cheap replacement - there are others but some of them have already been latched onto by BMW/Volvo people as upgrades for their cars and so command higher prices. 
 
The 884's are fitted to Rover and MG badged 1.4, 1.6 K-series powered cars and you can get a set of four still in the fuel rail (so hopefully free from dirt on the inlet side) on ebay easily - or you could a few years ago anyway. 
 
I cant find the No. for the orange ones I have in the P6 right now, I will see if I can get out there and read the numbers off when I have a chance.
 
The atomisation on these later injectors is much much better than even the siemens ones at the top of this post. 
Edited by Quagmire
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