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110 Salisbury replacement


monkie

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I'm turning my attention to the next big project to keep my 110 in reliable condition and I have made a list:

  • failing gearbox - sorted by swapping my LT77 for an r380 stumpy (thanks to forum member ianmayco68)
  • leaking transfer box - I'll probably get a refurbished box
  • worn props - I'll get new replacements
  • front axle and diff - no known issues, I replaced the CVs, bearing and swivel housings a couple of years back and all is fine. I will leave this alone.
  • rear axle - it is failing with flecks of metal in the oil and now making funny noises like a bearing(s) are going plus it has a load of free play do I think the crownwheel is worn and who knows what other badness is going on in there?!

With all the other stuff sorted from the engine to the props, I really don't know what to do so with the Salisbury so would like some ideas please. I have read that DIY refurb is not realistic to do properly at home and with no prior experience of rebuilding diffs, setting up backlash etc. so I am not really wanting to go down that road. I do have a replacment from miketomcat, the internals appear to be fine as far as I can tell, the outer casing is corroded so will have to be stripped, cleaned and new brackets welding on. I could opt for a secondhand replacement but that could well turn out to be a gamble.

I would welcome suggestions from experience please....

 

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I like this idea. I had written it off but now I'm starting to think down that line. I just don't want to spend money on a new crown wheel and pinion, bearings etc then hit a road block. How feasible is it to do in a home garage? Anyone refurbed one on here with success? 

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I’m just in the process of swapping my Salisbury for a short nose diff 110 axle. 
 

there isn’t a lot left to weld together on the Salisbury, also, their input bearing seat was so badly pitted that it leaks like a sieve. Hence, swapping to a newer axle. 
 

im just trying to fin the correct settings for the axle. Being newer it seems like the settings are not readily available like the older ones. Other than that, I think if you have a dial gauge and a basic tool kit, and are fairly mechanically minded, it shouldn’t be too difficult. 
 

I’ll let you know how difficult it is in a few days. 

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Having swapped between 4.71 and 3.54 pinions, rings and centres and back again on my Salisbury, and reading the official guide on how to set a new one up, it’s not difficult, just a little time consuming on the centre unit shims, a bit of an effort levering the centre out of the case unless you have a spreader, and setting those shims is going to need a good bearing puller to get the inner races off the carrier for setting the shims correctly (it’s not as blind trial and error as it initially seems, and should only take a few attempts, but the bearings will need to be removed).  The reality is that it is unlikely you’d have to change the shims on the pinion or centre anyway, as long as the tolerance variations are pretty small and are more in the casing than the gears.

In a nutshell, the internet and Haynes manuals make Salisbury diffs a mystery box of dark arts, feared and awed, when they’re not much different from the Rover diffs in principle, the main difference being the lateral shining rather than the locking side adjuster nuts.  I’d wager you £10 that as long as the shims aren’t damaged in anyway, you can rebuild it and get a good mesh without changing those shims, as long as you use the same spec new bearings from Timken, not any other manufacturer, and on that basis, I’d say strip it, replace the bearings and gears, including the internal diff gears and puns if needed, reassemble with the shims and try a pattern test before you start fiddling with shims.

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2 hours ago, Snagger said:

Having swapped between 4.71 and 3.54 pinions, rings and centres and back again on my Salisbury, and reading the official guide on how to set a new one up, it’s not difficult, just a little time consuming on the centre unit shims, a bit of an effort levering the centre out of the case unless you have a spreader, and setting those shims is going to need a good bearing puller to get the inner races off the carrier for setting the shims correctly (it’s not as blind trial and error as it initially seems, and should only take a few attempts, but the bearings will need to be removed).  The reality is that it is unlikely you’d have to change the shims on the pinion or centre anyway, as long as the tolerance variations are pretty small and are more in the casing than the gears.

In a nutshell, the internet and Haynes manuals make Salisbury diffs a mystery box of dark arts, feared and awed, when they’re not much different from the Rover diffs in principle, the main difference being the lateral shining rather than the locking side adjuster nuts.  I’d wager you £10 that as long as the shims aren’t damaged in anyway, you can rebuild it and get a good mesh without changing those shims, as long as you use the same spec new bearings from Timken, not any other manufacturer, and on that basis, I’d say strip it, replace the bearings and gears, including the internal diff gears and puns if needed, reassemble with the shims and try a pattern test before you start fiddling with shims.

Thank you for this Snagger. You are right, as I have never done any more with a diff than change the oil regularly I had been put off touching the Salisbury by the means you mention. 

I'm going to get my wire brush and welder out to sort out Mike's old axle. 

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Just for clarification, both pinions were just right with the shims that were installed in the casing I used, needing no adjustments, and Kam Diffs said that is normal on their website when talking about replacing Salisbury gear sets with the same or different ratios - they said it was less than 5% of cases where the casing needed shim alteration.  As for the centre, I was also able to swap the 4.71 centre with its shims and bearings into the 110 axle without adjusting the shims on the centre - it went straight in with a good mesh.  Since you will be retaining your centre, just rebuilding it with a new ring gear, bearings and possibly the small gears and cross pin, there should be no dimensional changes, so the existing shims will be right.  Dead easy, except for the weight and levering the thing out with two pry bars unless you have that spreader (it’s not essential, contrary to the instructions, but it does make the job much easier).

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I rigged up a DIY spreader from some heavy angle iron and threaded bar. I understand that I should only be putting minimal force on the casing with a spreader to avoid damage. If prying out with bars, is it difficult to put back in? 

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It’s more difficult than with the spreader.  You need to get the outer races in position and tap them in with a big hammer and soft drift, like a block of hard wood, copper or aluminium, and you have to drift them in square to the casing - if they skew, they bind very easily.

The spreader is a great thing to have.  Use it to spread the casing just enough to remove or refit the centre by hand, and release the pressure as soon as you’re done to avoid leaving it distorted for long periods.  It doesn’t take much on the screws to achieve that small amount of deformation needed for the job.

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10 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

Makes you wonder why they didn't make the hole bigger in the first place !

Mo

The springiness of the casing is what provides the bearing preload - there are no adjustable end nuts like the Rover diffs have in their rigid casing.  To get the right preload needs a specific small interference fit in the casing; the spreader changes the dimensions to allow easy installation and removal, then you release the spreader to check the shim settings.

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The first time I did the job, I borrowed one from Rogers of Bedford (kind of them to lend it for free).  It was a simple box made of  two parallel thick square section bars (2” or there about) and two parallel thick threaded rods with nots on each end to draw the bars together, squeezing the top and bottom of the diff case to force the side outwards (like Sigi said).

The second time they said I could borrow it, it was missing.  One of their new fitters had weighed in a lot of old parts, drifts and big bits of metal for scrap, and the spreader was probably amongst it...

It shouldn’t be hard to make up a copy, the hardest part being finding the threaded bar and nuts.

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