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I'm considering a new Defender.  I've been watching spewtube videos and reading articles on JLR general reliability.  Some ugly stories out there.  My nearest dealer for purchase, service and warranty issues is 100 miles away.  I have wrenched all my life but electronics diagnosis is not my forte.  Given that, if you were in my boots would you buy a new Defender?

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People rarely rush to the internet to tell everyone the thing they just bought works as expected, so the bad news stories stick out.  There are always teething troubles with brand new models though, and I guess anything of a similar class/size/capability is going to be more prone to the odd glitch than a nissan leaf. 

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At this stage of the new defender's life i think its more a case of whether you like the car rather than how reliable it is. As Eightpot says, there are always glitches with new cars and its still way too early to comment on long term build quality. Personally, I dont like them having test driven one but until there are thousands on the road with hundreds of thousands of combined miles you won't know how likely they are to give you issues.

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I saw the OP is in North America, where distances to Dealers tend to be larger than here in the UK.

This led me to wonder how far it was to the Dealerships of alternative vehicles, if you do not buy the Defender?
If they are all about 100 miles away, the distance can't really be part of the purchase decision.

The predictable advice is 'buying a high end import is always likely to be expensive', especially when the LR reputation in reliability surveys is taken into account.

I wish I could be more positive.

Regards

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Can you not lease it rather than buying it?

If it's leased and it goes-wrong then the issue is between the lease-company and the dealer: OK, it was 3 decades years back but when I was working in the US I leased a car [a Chevy Corsica.... ugh!!] and when it went wrong I called the leaseco and said "it's broken - send me another" and they did within six hours.

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On 11/14/2020 at 9:40 PM, totomojo said:

I'm considering a new Defender.  I've been watching spewtube videos and reading articles on JLR general reliability.  Some ugly stories out there.  My nearest dealer for purchase, service and warranty issues is 100 miles away.  I have wrenched all my life but electronics diagnosis is not my forte.  Given that, if you were in my boots would you buy a new Defender?

 

Nope

 

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Not a chance.  I’ve just been seeing a friend who has a Discovery Sport and that came back from the garage for more repairs yesterday.  It has been in for warranty work several times per year since they bought it new.  LR reliability is disgraceful, but new models are always worse (for every manufacturer).  I’d at least give it a couple of years for LR to figure out what the weaknesses on this one are and get the spares logistics up to speed if you’re really set on it, but I’m convinced it’ll set a new low on the global reliability surveys.  Besides, the UK just announced that no pure ICE vehicles will be registered from 2025, and the EU is looking to match that, so support for the car after that point will start getting harder and the resale value will plummet.

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26 minutes ago, Snagger said:

... the UK just announced that no pure ICE vehicles will be registered from 2025, and the EU is looking to match that, so support for the car after that point will start getting harder and the resale value will plummet.

The OP is in North America, do you really think the USA (or Dubai for that matter) will follow the UK time frame?.

I also thought the date was currently 2030, and that referred to NEW fossil fueled vehicles, so one bought in 2020, or 2021, should have a good few years to run.

Regards.

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7 hours ago, David Sparkes said:

The OP is in North America, do you really think the USA (or Dubai for that matter) will follow the UK time frame?.

I also thought the date was currently 2030, and that referred to NEW fossil fueled vehicles, so one bought in 2020, or 2021, should have a good few years to run.

Regards.

When the main markets become restricted, yes, I think there will be problems with parts for the other markets.

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Thanks for the comments and advice.  Where I currently live (basically in the center of the US) all domestic and Japanese brands, BMW and Mercedes are within 10-15 miles because its a prosperous area.  I think I will call the nearest Land Rover dealer (the one 100 miles away) and see how they would handle repairs and service.  I've talked to Porsche owners whose dealership is the same distance away and for service the dealer sends a courier over with a loaner car, swaps vehicles and then reverses the swap when the service is complete.

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22 hours ago, Retroanaconda said:

Pretty sure it is 2030:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54981425

100 miles to a dealer is local for many in the U.K. and especially in the US and other larger countries. 

You’re right.  The UK govt has brought it forward 5 years, but I forgot the original date of 2035, based on EU policy.  It’s Norway, not the UK that is banning ICE sales from 2025.

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On 11/21/2020 at 8:23 PM, totomojo said:

Thanks for the comments and advice.  Where I currently live (basically in the center of the US) all domestic and Japanese brands, BMW and Mercedes are within 10-15 miles because its a prosperous area.  I think I will call the nearest Land Rover dealer (the one 100 miles away) and see how they would handle repairs and service.  I've talked to Porsche owners whose dealership is the same distance away and for service the dealer sends a courier over with a loaner car, swaps vehicles and then reverses the swap when the service is complete.

That is the manner that all my JLR servicing was handled in my last new purchase Defenders were handled. That is up until the last one when the dealer started saying I had to take the vehicle in to pick up the loaner. Such was the inability to fix issues first time round on my last new (old style) Defender I got rid of it. I just couldn't be bothered with the inconvenience. I'm in the UK, nearest dealerships now 20-30 miles. 

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I think it is important to recognise that JLR franchised dealer workshops and by and large utterly incompetent.  I have had a handful of dealings with them on my 109 and wife’s 90, and all were atrocious.  They even diagnosed the transmission vibration on my 109 as being from the front prop shaft, even though it was sitting on my garage floor as part of the process of elimination, and replaced a rocker cover gasket (without authorisation) as a cure for the oil loss from cracked pistons, failing to give the compression test results I’d taken it in for and checking compression by holding their hand over the oil filler/breather aperture.  If that is the level of incompetence for simple issues, I darent think of how they’d behave over complex problems.

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5 hours ago, Snagger said:

I think it is important to recognise that JLR franchised dealer workshops and by and large utterly incompetent.  I have had a handful of dealings with them on my 109 and wife’s 90, and all were atrocious.  They even diagnosed the transmission vibration on my 109 as being from the front prop shaft, even though it was sitting on my garage floor as part of the process of elimination, and replaced a rocker cover gasket (without authorisation) as a cure for the oil loss from cracked pistons, failing to give the compression test results I’d taken it in for and checking compression by holding their hand over the oil filler/breather aperture.  If that is the level of incompetence for simple issues, I darent think of how they’d behave over complex problems.

If its any time in the last 20 years its no great surprise they couldn't diagnose and fix your 109.... they were probably most stumped trying to find the OBD socket.

To be fair - most dealerships are like this now. The days of find the fault and fix it are gone.... we live in a world where technicians replace parts willy nilly without any proper investigation until replacement fixes the fault. If you want proper mechanics find the remaining old school garages tucked round the back of old industrial estates with a couple of ramps, no shiny signs and a workshop full of tools for actually mending things.... these places have a waiting list because they are actually good. 

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I had a blazing row with the Service Manager at a VW Dealership a few years ago. My wife's Golf mk4 had a fault (sorry few details as I can't remember). The local indy had failed to find it and that's why I resorted to the dealership. They asked me for a commitment to a new part at about £80 (somewhere inlet manifold related). I authorised it and the next day was told that after a test drive the fault was still present. Then they swapped a sensor at a cost of a few £ and the fault cleared.

So I complained but got nowhere, so made an appointment to see the Manager. I asked why they had tried a parts swap in that order, most expensive (and not reversible) first and then the cheap option second. He said that they had followed the correct diagnosis. I couldn't understand why they wouldn't try the cheap sensor first and said so. He was adamant that they had done things correctly. He couldn't understand my utter annoyance that the expensive part was fitted first and then the easy cheap sensor second. I refused to pay but that got me no-where except threats to recover by other legal means.

I couldn't get any goodwill reduction as I didn't have full dealer stamps in the book. I never went back. So it isn't just JLR...

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Not had much experience of main dealers but I do remember about 25years ago being at a landrover dealer driving day taking customers around a small quarry in my lightweight, anyway smashed rear diff and landrover guy said that's you finished for today,no I told him got a spare diff in the back and asked him to bring some oil up with the next round of punters and I would have the diff changed. 45 minutes later he came back with oil and I was waiting for him, he couldn't believe I'd changed the diff in the field in such a short time he actually said " it takes our technicians 8 hrs to do that in the workshop" it stuck with me because I was gob smacked as they were charging £50 an hour back then, day light robbery in my opinion regards Stephen

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16 hours ago, reb78 said:

If its any time in the last 20 years its no great surprise they couldn't diagnose and fix your 109.... they were probably most stumped trying to find the OBD socket.

To be fair - most dealerships are like this now. The days of find the fault and fix it are gone.... we live in a world where technicians replace parts willy nilly without any proper investigation until replacement fixes the fault. If you want proper mechanics find the remaining old school garages tucked round the back of old industrial estates with a couple of ramps, no shiny signs and a workshop full of tools for actually mending things.... these places have a waiting list because they are actually good. 

It took the Nottingham dealer a month to do the PDI on my wife’s “Assured” 90, it requiring a repair to the high level brake light in the rear window.  They completely missed the chafed wiring in the left wing (a common issue, I’m told) that caused the horn to sound continuously when the headlights were switched on on the drive home.  We had to leave the car with the Leicester franchised dealer to fix that, which took another three weeks.  Their work was OK, and their service far better, but the admin in getting the paperwork done for warranty work on the Approved scheme was a farce.  I’m sorry,  it LR franchised dealer standards are diabolical.  But, as you said, it’s everywhere - I won’t bore everyone with the story of what happened when I bought a second hand Saab and took it to my dealer to have a full service (combining all the points of all services so that everything was done to mitigate a relatively obscure history) x it was the worst motor trade experience of my life.

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