Disco 3 and MT tyres.

[Simon_CSK]

Having had one of my Range Rovers stuck in my muddy field for a week because the road tyres were inadequate for the mud and my Discovery TD5 has finally reached a point where is is time to replace I am working on an idea to set up a Disco 3. 

My D2 had receiver hitches front and back as well as anderson connectors for a portable winch. This proved very useful on the odd occasion when I needed it so would like to replicate this. The aforementioned feild is where I keep my trailers and access to my paddock, where I repair my cars, however the field is on a down slope, to my house, and whilst I can get a car in even with General Grabber AT tyres I cannot get out. 

Whilst I had fun on Saturday winching out my RR I did have a brown trouser moment at the gate when one of my outer RR's driven by my neighbour dragged me into a bush and gate post. This is because the gate is restricted and opens on to a B class road right at a junction with major trunk road.

I feel the only solution will be fitting a car with a set of good mud terrain tyres. Anybody able to make suggestions for the D3 that don't require body modifications?

[Jon W]

I would suggest a few loads of road plannings would save you a lot of hassle in the future and probably work out cheaper, if you want to get access in and out of the workshop. Saves a lot of winching and churned up grass. 

 

[Simon_CSK]

1 hour ago, Jon W said:

I would suggest a few loads of road plannings would save you a lot of hassle in the future and probably work out cheaper, if you want to get access in and out of the workshop. Saves a lot of winching and churned up grass. 

?

I would agree with you however it isn't my field (yet)! And besides who on here wouldn't want their own personal mud site to play in? 

[missingsid]

My normal reply as usual DISCO3.co.uk has the answers.

The tyre of choice seems to be

Goodyear Wrangler DuraTrac is a versatile tyre designed for off-road vehicles. This ensures good traction in all-terrain as well as good behaviour on paved roads . Equipped with a symmetrical tread, the model performs very well on dry and wet surfaces.

Available in standard size incl 19" go more aggressive and you will need smaller wheels 17/18"? One review has all 10/10 except 5/10 for noise.

[Simon_CSK]

44 minutes ago, missingsid said:

My normal reply as usual DISCO3.co.uk has the answers.

The tyre of choice seems to be

Goodyear Wrangler DuraTrac is a versatile tyre designed for off-road vehicles. This ensures good traction in all-terrain as well as good behaviour on paved roads . Equipped with a symmetrical tread, the model performs very well on dry and wet surfaces.

Available in standard size incl 19" go more aggressive and you will need smaller wheels 17/18"? One review has all 10/10 except 5/10 for noise.

I have a set of 18 inch wheels from a Range Rover L322 which I think will fit so smaller tyres are an option. I am wary about AT's as the General Grabbers on my P38 just clogged in the mud at the gate. As the car will be used as a workhorse leaving my Range Rovers for nice days and weekends the road noise will be less of an issue.

[Chicken Drumstick]

I don't think there is much in the 18" rim sizes. 17's there is a lot more choice (early L322's used 17" rims, but I don't know if they clear D3 brakes). Although many of the mainstream tyre makers only offer BIG (35"+) in the larger rim sizes. Which is a no go really.

The MALATESTA KAMEL is a BFG KM2 copy and available in a size that might work. They also do a AT copy in similar sizes too.

http://www.malatesta.it/lista-disegni.php?codGenere=4

BFG also do 18"

https://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tires/mud-terrain/mud-terrain-t-a-km3.html

[landroversforever]

Mate of mine really rates the General Grabber X3 he has on his D4, and the D3 he had before that.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I have the X3's on my 88. They go pretty well, not had much chance to try in anger in the dirt yet. For serious mud I'd say the KM3 looks to be a better pattern IMO. But I wanted something good all round including on the road. Plus I love the red writing on the sidewalls!!

[missingsid]

Remember speed rating on aggressive tyres are lower and may not meet the D3's requirement.

Many aggressive tyres on D1/2 and RRC are not legal on road, particularly retreads or copies.

[Chicken Drumstick]

21 minutes ago, missingsid said:

Remember speed rating on aggressive tyres are lower and may not meet the D3's requirement.

Many aggressive tyres on D1/2 and RRC are not legal on road, particularly retreads or copies.

Do you have a reference to the legislation for this? I've heard conflicting things. But I struggle to believe a tyre to match the vehicles top speed is actually a requirement for road use. Especially when some car makers don't even publish a top speed for a vehicle. So how'd you know what speed rating tyres you'd need?

[elbekko]

Just put a top speed sticker in like you can for winter tyres?

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Do you have a reference to the legislation for this? I've heard conflicting things. But I struggle to believe a tyre to match the vehicles top speed is actually a requirement for road use. Especially when some car makers don't even publish a top speed for a vehicle. So how'd you know what speed rating tyres you'd need?

I seem to remember Nigel @Hybrid_From_Hell looking at this due to the speed rating of the Simex Extreme Trekker vs the top speed of his 90 being a V8 model with a higher published top speed. I think the official response was that you just need to drive to the tyre speed.

[missingsid]

Really, OK but this is not what I though it is as any speed over 70mph is illegal so why would it matter????

My understanding was the opposite, if a vehicle is rated at 110mph then the tyres need to be rated accordingly even though you cannot exceed 70mph.

For me it is not an issue as the Series 1 is rated at 59mph so other than agri tyres which aren't legal anyway, everything else will be higher.

[missingsid]

OK so according to a tyre website and the RAC your statement is true.

A tyre speed rating indicates the maximum speed a tyre is legally approved for.

HOWEVER it then adds this:

Tyre speed ratings should be matched to the official top speed of your car. If you fit cheaper, lower-speed-rated tyres, it could affect your car insurance.

 

So legally yes you are right, but it may give the insurers another get out.

[Chicken Drumstick]

Thanks. Suspect that is a bit tentative and not sure insurance could really be voided under these grounds. If you had a car rated at 150mph top speed and you had tyres rated for 130mph (U) fitted. Yet where involved in an accident at 42mph. I do not think an insurance company would legally be able to reject the claim solely on this basis.

Fitting cars with winter or all season tyres could easily cause this situation. And is something recommended by places like the RAC.

I'm also of the understanding that Agri tyres would also be legal, but you would be restricted to the speed rating of the tyre. However in this instance I would assume this would be seen as a 'modification'. So you should probably inform your insurers.

[Nonimouse]

What setting where you using (on Terrain Response)?

[Simon_CSK]

I now have two D3's one of which I am now going to set up properly.

The idea for the tyres is to have them available for when I need them. ATM I have far too many RR's and LR's. I am on the limit to sustain my marriage.

For my D2 and my P38 the wheels were inter changeable so I had matching alloys and spares. I am giving up my D2 but have now bought D3 and will probable replace that with a D4 again the wheels between the D3/4 should be interchangeable with the L322 which again I will be keeping. So if I have a set of good off road tyres they will be on one of my vehicles so that I can use it in the field or in extreme weather over the winter and then set it back up with road tyres for the summer. 

I will not breaking the speed limit (that often ) on off road tyres.

 

[Ed Poore]

I had General Grabbers on the L322 largely because when I had it it was the only option available for a semi off-road tyre. Seemingly everyone on the fullfatrr forum was ranting and raving about them, I found them to be 💩. Useless off-road , OK on road but only managed at best 15k on a set of them. Eventually Goodyear came out with the Wrangler Duratracs and boy they were an improvement - yes technically rated lower than the speed of the vehicle but still good for >100mph if I remember correctly.

One thing to remember, which I discovered when in a similar situation at getting frustrated at not being able to spin wheels to clean the tyres, is that if you engage one of the Terrain Response modes you're meant to turn off the DSC as this overrides it and prevents too much engine power going to the wheels.

[Simon_CSK]

On 11/29/2020 at 8:37 PM, Ed Poore said:

 Goodyear came out with the Wrangler Duratracs and boy they were an improvement

Ed do you rate the Duratracs for off road use? They certainly appear to fit the bill.

[Ed Poore]

Short version - they were much better than the Grabbers the only other tyres I ever had on it were some Pirelli Scorpions I think which is what it came with. With the traction control systems on an L322 the tyres really only come into play on wet grass / muddy ground in my experience. Rocks / sand etc., the Terrain Response really does work wonders when you work with it - I'm not saying tyres won't help but they're a smaller improvement than you'd expect.

Longer version, I had the L322 about 5-6 years ago if I remember correctly. It was the 3.6TDV8 so had factory Brembos which meant the only real option was 19" wheels for it. The only smaller wheels were the set made by Compomotive for the Bowler Nemesis for the Dakar at 18". I enquired with them about a set and they were actually a very reasonable price but back then there was almost no tyre choice for 18" compared to the 19" wheels so ended up sticking with the 19s simply because I could get tyres for them. Since then with the fascination for lower profile tyres / larger wheels means that there is a much greater selection of tyres available. Even BFG make some I think.

Once the Pirellis wore out the only semi off-road tyre was the General Grabber ATs so I bought a set of those and chucked them on - they were better than the road tyres but I basically viewed them as a baby all-terrain. The only places the L322 struggled on (apart from it's girth) was wet grass / mud where tyre choice is all that really matters, the Grabbers used to fill up with mud quite easily. Shortly after fitting the first set (500 miles or so) I drove up to the lakes for a forum laning trip and proceeded to destroy the front driver side tyre on a rock above Coniston Water (@Retroanaconda heard the explosion from his 90 about a hundred feet behind me). On returning home and dropping in to get a new tyre we found I'd also cut the rear on the same side badly - it looked OK in the Lakes but by the time I got home had bulged from the damage. Not long after (about 15k total I think I had on the set of tyres) I was servicing the Range Rover at my parents farm with the pitt and noticed the inside wall of the tyres cracking up. So ended up having to replace all the tyres - again for a set of Grabbers. I proceeded to write-off another one on another laning trip in Surrey - again a puncture (well the first was technically an explosion) through the sidewall.

After getting fed up with the Grabbers (I wasn't wearing them out, they either got destroyed through sidewall damage laning or the sidewalls would start cracking up <20k in) I looked at alternatives and Goodyear had just launched the Wrangler Duratracs (literally a few weeks before I started looking) so had a set of those fitted. I did slightly less laning over this period but the tyres survived and I got >30k out of them before I hit a sharp stone on the A31 and wrote off one tyre. The others were OK but starting to wear out when I sold the vehicle with them still on - but the new owner put a new set of rubber on them.

General grabbers when they were fairly new:

Unfortunately the only photo I can find of when it had the Duratracs fitted - but as you'll see I did use it off-road more than most. You can just about make out that the sidewalls have a bit more tread than the Grabbers. I certainly didn't suffer any sidewall failures like I did with the Grabbers but as I said I didn't use it as extensively off-road as I used to because I got my 110 back and that was used for the more hard-core stuff. But the Duratracs did work well in several feet of snow off-road through the Scottish Highlands with four people in it, a couple of dogs and a couple of beasties in the boot.

I might have sold it still with some deer blood on the inside of the rear tailgate... 

[Simon_CSK]

I have General Grabbers on my P38 and last year they would not get grip in the field to allow me to escape. The field falls 3m in 70 along one edge and 3m in 50 along another. so across the corner it is 6m down from the highest point. My L322 on road tyres and with Mud setting on would not move the car. The field was sodden. In the end after a week I put a winch on it and pulled it the 50m to the gate. 

I want to be able to come and go in the field in the winter so I can use my paddock but as things stand this will not happen. 

[elbekko]

There's a big difference between the General AT and the AT², the latter actually works really well in my experience, especially when aired down a bit. I ran the same set on my classic and later on my P38 for a good amount of miles, including quite a bit of off-roading. The regular AT is indeed more of a soft-road tyre, can't see those working very well.

[Ed Poore]

Wasn't that the weird situation where they introduced the AT and renamed the old AT to AT² and the new one was called AT - if you followed that?

Regardless it was the newer pattern (with respect to time introduced), I'd seen some 16" wheel ATs and the pattern looked significantly better than the 19" pattern. In my experience airing down on the L322 in the UK ended up in even worse situations due to the sidewall not really being a sidewall and more a smear on the side of the wheel.