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Vapour 101 camper


miketomcat
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4 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

According to this 5.4:1 but I guess they have taller wheels as standard? Looks to be 9x16s so roughly 34"?

Although almost nothing else from anothe landrove fits, I reckon 3.54 ring and pinions from a 110 salisbury fits.

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On 12/14/2020 at 6:44 AM, miketomcat said:

Given that my mother in law is on the Hebrides, father in law is in Bulgaria and step brothers in Greece that's several trips that are considerably easier if you can just park roll in the back and sleep.

I am going to be realistic for a moment and say that any of these trips in A 101 will be a painfull experience in my opinion and very costly in fuel no matter what engine you use. Also, if you do 60MPH (I'd say is realistic), you are going to spend several days to get there, loosing valuable holiday time.

For trips above I would get an audi allroad or similar, zoom at a ton over the autobahn and get there in about half the time. spend the money you save on some nice B&Bs along the way. I do remember driving to Czech (where the in laws live) a few times.

Best time door to door we managed was 17 hours non stop in a Skoda Octavia, which was fast. We swapped seats every 2 hours. And Czech is only halfway to Greece. I learned from that that faster is going to help a lot on those distances.

101s have their place, if you do a trip through the Sahara or something like that. That pretty much makes the LPG option a waste of time in my opinion. I have got the impression that the 101 out of that video is not really meant to go anywhere remote somehow. Lovely piece of work but what is it meant to do?

Anyway, knowing you, you are going to ignore all this and go ahead:SVAgoaway:.

Looking forward to the end result!

Daan

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17 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

Was just going to mention the stripe, Martini?

Yep, we had some left over from LeMans :D

 

30 minutes ago, Daan said:

Although almost nothing else from anothe landrove fits, I reckon 3.54 ring and pinions from a 110 salisbury fits.

I'd be wary - I believe the Series Salisburys use imperial bearings while the later ones used metric but I'm no expert... certainly it's not as easy a swap as swapping rover diffs around. Someone further up said the 101 gearbox/transfer is a lower final drive ratio than the Range Rover too, and ISTR they have a different bellhousing, exhaust manifolds, etc...

TBH given the issues it's probably easier/cheaper to re-body a knackered 130 than heavily modify a 101 - you start with modern and common axles, suspension, brakes, PAS, and the right length (or at least more length) chassis, and a 101 body isn't exactly a coachbuilding masterpiece. Probably just as easy to start from scratch and put everything where you want it too.

The big cummins etc. diesel lumps are great but as others say, they're low-revving truck engines and will twist almost any LR gearbox in half with minimal effort - 4 or 6 big diesel thwacks of torque per turn seems to do things to Land Rover gearboxes that the smoother petrol V8's don't, and gearing it all up for a comfortable cruising speed could result in a very stressed gearbox.

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I can't offer much about vehicle choice except the experience of travelling all over Europe (and further afield) with kids and then without them. First thing to say is that those years with kids pass so quickly and before you know it they are gone. This happened to us at age about 18. One disappeared around the world as soon as she'd finished A-levels and didn't come on holiday again and I think her sister was about the same age. We spent most of those years towing a caravan all over Europe and there's no doubt that this is very easy although not very flexible. Until you un-couple and then you can go where you want in the vicinity. 

So whatever you do, don't spend too long doing it. There's only a few trips available with the four of you and then it will probably be two.

I don't subscribe to the "get there quickly" view unless your holiday is "there" and not "all the way there and back". We love exploring the back roads and only make a rough plan and then allow ourselves to explore along the rough route. The best bit is being fairly compact and never fearing getting stuck in the small roads at the back of some remote village. It's great to be able to manoeuvre anywhere. If you have a big vehicle you simply can't drive into small places, park in the middle and get out again.

If I had the time again with kids I think I would go LWB Sprinter or Iveco and try to all sleep inside, although I'm sure that they would have preferred a tent on the ground whenever the overnight stop allowed.

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19 minutes ago, Peaklander said:

So whatever you do, don't spend too long doing it. There's only a few trips available with the four of you and then it will probably be two.

I don't subscribe to the "get there quickly" view unless your holiday is "there" and not "all the way there and back". We love exploring the back roads and only make a rough plan and then allow ourselves to explore along the rough route.

I understand the 'it's the journey rather than the destination' approach, and there are always areas where I would like to stay longer If I had time. But this is where always the sticking point comes for me: It somehow always end up having to go back home as work or school starts on monday. Sure, taking a week or two to get there and back again would be great. But it won't happen anytime soon. Maybe in 20 years time When I retire.

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Quite agree @Daan and I had plenty of summer holidays that maxed-out at finish on a Friday late afternoon but back in after two weeks / three weekends - either for a look around on Sunday evening or definitely at 5:30am on Monday. In that case you do have to "get there and back" and it's a real balance of how far do we try to go and how much time (if any) do we spend on that journey.

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Those that know me well will understand that I don't do normal holidays in any form. I would rather drive to Australia than fly even if it meant turning round and coming straight back again. My wife is only fractional more normal and the kids have grown up this way. I would love to build something now but time and finance's simply don't allow it. This has been an exercise in what could be done whether I get to do it or not...well we'll see.

Mike

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14 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

Normally yes - but they have different ratios on the transfer box side of things. I think the 101 is the lowest ratio of the lot. The RRC had the highest drive ratio (~0.9:1 if I remember correctly). I'm fairly sure that's also what the Stage 1s and subseqently my 6x6 had. I think you can swap the gears out - I've not had a look but I've heard that the RRC ratios aren't that commonly available because everyone wants them, but that might be hearsay.

The LT95 was only ever fitted (standard, except some Perentines) with V8s so it's a V8 bell housing which I think a 4.6 will just bolt up to @FridgeFreezer will confirm. I've got a spare LT95 bell housing on the bench if you wanted some measurements.

Any sals diff ratios will go in - just need the matched crown and pinion - many go for the 4.2:1? ratio.  The .9:1 hi range ratios are freely available and easily installed. 

Because the "new" diesel fitted to series 3 vehicles in the UK from the late 70s was garbage, Leyland Australia fitted the Isuzu 4BD 4.0 diesel to the Stage 1s and then the 110 as an option to the V8 until the Defender came on the scene here in the early 90s.  Was initially fitted to the LT95 in the Stage 1 and 110, then from the mid 80s was fitted to the LT85.  In the Perentie in both 4x4 and 6x6 it was fitted to the LT95 - the 6x6 had the turbo diesel.

So parts are available to put the diesel to the LT95 and LT85 if you look "hard".

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9 hours ago, Daan said:

I am going to be realistic for a moment and say that any of these trips in A 101 will be a painfull experience in my opinion and very costly in fuel no matter what engine you use. Also, if you do 60MPH (I'd say is realistic), you are going to spend several days to get there, loosing valuable holiday time.

 

I have driven a 101 from Canberra to Melbourne and back in one day (24 hours) - total distance was 1400km(870m - just a bit further than London to Glasgow and back) - you will not normally cruise at 60mph.  I was on gas so not expensive but would have been if on petrol.  Was a comfortable drive and averaged about the same speed as your HGV (our Semis)

I have driven the equivalent distance of London to Berlin in one day with no major issues so on the aspects of comfort etc do not discount the 101 as it is not as bad as most think - fuel consumption is high but does depend how you drive it - on the high cruising I get 14 - 15mpg on petrol but any where offroad it is far worse.  By comparison my V12 jag at half the weight of a loaded 101 only gives the same.

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Some more 101 ideas - noting that whatever base vehicle is used modifications will be required.

I earlier posted this pic

 

101 camper.jpg

 

Well here are two Youtube vids on its build and modifications.

Part 1 - the vehicle

 

Part 2 - the vehicle and camper

 

Edited by garrycol
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5 hours ago, garrycol said:

Some more 101 ideas - noting that whatever base vehicle is used modifications will be required.

I earlier posted this pic

 

101 camper.jpg

 

Well here are two Youtube vids on its build and modifications.

Part 1 - the vehicle

 

Part 2 - the vehicle and camper

 

That's pretty inpressive when you see he designed and built the rear demountable section himself.   

 

It's not my cup of tea, but kudos on a job well done

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7 hours ago, garrycol said:

I have driven a 101 from Canberra to Melbourne and back in one day (24 hours) - total distance was 1400km(870m - just a bit further than London to Glasgow and back) - you will not normally cruise at 60mph.  I was on gas so not expensive but would have been if on petrol.  Was a comfortable drive and averaged about the same speed as your HGV (our Semis)

I have driven the equivalent distance of London to Berlin in one day with no major issues so on the aspects of comfort etc do not discount the 101 as it is not as bad as most think - fuel consumption is high but does depend how you drive it - on the high cruising I get 14 - 15mpg on petrol but any where offroad it is far worse.  By comparison my V12 jag at half the weight of a loaded 101 only gives the same.

Without being too personal, how tall are you though Garry? I know Mike is tall, and Daan even taller! 

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27 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

Without being too personal, how tall are you though Garry? I know Mike is tall, and Daan even taller! 

I am 6' and a bit of a porker - when turning I can use my belly to hold the steering wheel in place - lol.

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I know fridge very well as does he me. He also knows the chance's of me being able to afford/getting it past my wife are extremely slim. I've got to move into the next house (it's taking forever :rtfm:) do an extension among other things before I can even think about saving some money to buy one. As I said in the beginning I'm bored and this is an exercise in could it work. I think it could but unless I win the lottery it's a way off.

Mike

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19 hours ago, miketomcat said:

Your absolutely right, but then I don't need an ibex or a mini jem there are plenty of other cars that would do the job. So it not necessarily about what will do the job but what you want to do the job.

The difference is both of those are at least somewhat suited to your purpose - the Bex may not be everyone's idea of a practical family car but it does at least do everything you need and will basically last forever. A Gem is small, cheap, and fun as a runabout.

A 101 is not a practical vehicle for almost any modern purpose - its original purpose was overtaken by either better trucks or the 130 and as I said previously almost everything about it is "wrong" for what you want, other than the fact it's a large box on wheels which is true of trucks, vans, ambulances, fire engines, etc. as well. True it's got character, but you're sacrificing a hell of a lot for it.

You're somewhat sensitive to running costs, ferry costs on family visits, etc. so a 101 is going to be fairly hideous on fuel and the eventual height/length may land you with a more expensive ferry ticket anyway.

A caravan behind the bex gives you more space/storage in the camping part, more space in the car part, and means you can park the van & go out & about (or one of you can go to the shops while the other stays with the van), plus when it's not in use it's a lower maintenance thing to keep stored. I know you hate them but caravans are incredibly practical for family trips.

 

@steve b don't worry I know Mike far too well, if it wasn't for all this virus nonsense we'd be having this conversation in the pub or drinking tea in his kitchen and saving the rest of you the bother :D

I do find it an interesting discussion to have, there's a lot of "overland" rigs and home-built campers etc. out there that don't really fit the use-case at all but people either fall for the marketing / instagram lifestyle posts, the groupthink (must have a £2k roof top tent and £5k sankey trailer and still end up cooking/washing outdoors and having to fold a damp tent up every day), or as we see here the heart rules over the head and a cool vehicle trumps practicality... and I'm in no way claiming that my ambulance is practical, it's absolutely a "heart" purchase, but we did have a LOT of the same discussions before buying it as are going on in this thread.

We very nearly bought a very cool 109 ambulance, but that suffered a similar practicality deficit to a 101 - it would need an engine+gearbox swap if you wanted to be able to press on to get somewhere, it had drum brakes, no PAS, the rear box was only just enough for 2 people travelling very light (having a toilet of some sort was a non-negotiable requirement, which eats a significant space), and it was still strong money (it sold on eBay for more than we paid for our 127). The 127 makes quite a few sacrifices over a LWB Sprinter (which would be my #1 sensible choice) but it's still very tolerable and the fun-factor outweighs them.

 

I forget who in this thread said "it's about the journey", while I agree with that in principle, in practice sometimes you just need to tuck 1000 miles of dull motorway miles away as quickly as possible to get where you actually want to be - and I know in Mike's case he needs to be able to get the family either up to Scotland or down to Bulgaria with whatever vehicle he ends up with. Spending a week chugging along at 55mph slipstreaming the HGV's is not my idea of an inspirational journey, and every time we cruise past a classic VW camper wheezing along at 52mph flat-out and going deaf doing it I am quite glad I fitted the V8. Being able to clip along at the speed limit can make the difference between a single long day of driving and two slightly shorter days of driving plus a motel/campsite stay, and that can add up over long distances in time & money.

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On 12/15/2020 at 9:39 PM, FridgeFreezer said:

Yep, we had some left over from LeMans :D

 

I'd be wary - I believe the Series Salisburys use imperial bearings while the later ones used metric but I'm no expert... certainly it's not as easy a swap as swapping rover diffs around. Someone further up said the 101 gearbox/transfer is a lower final drive ratio than the Range Rover too, and ISTR they have a different bellhousing, exhaust manifolds, etc...

TBH given the issues it's probably easier/cheaper to re-body a knackered 130 than heavily modify a 101 - you start with modern and common axles, suspension, brakes, PAS, and the right length (or at least more length) chassis, and a 101 body isn't exactly a coachbuilding masterpiece. Probably just as easy to start from scratch and put everything where you want it too.

The big cummins etc. diesel lumps are great but as others say, they're low-revving truck engines and will twist almost any LR gearbox in half with minimal effort - 4 or 6 big diesel thwacks of torque per turn seems to do things to Land Rover gearboxes that the smoother petrol V8's don't, and gearing it all up for a comfortable cruising speed could result in a very stressed gearbox.

I swapped the diffs between 109 and 110 Salisbury axles and didn’t even need to alter the shims.  There is a difference in the carriers between 4.71 and 3.54 diffs, though - the ring gear flange is set at different positions to allow for the different pinion head diameter, the 4.71 diff having its flange around an inch closer to the pinion axis, so you have to swap the whole diff for significant ratio changes.  I don’t know if there is a third specification diff centre for the even lower ratio of the 101 axles or whether they used 109 diffs with very thick ring gears.

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