LED Lights

[Diff]

Just for info, ECE Regulations are not European standards. ECE Regulations are United Nations Regulations which are adopted/accepted into legal requirements by many countries and territories all over the world including the European Union and the United Kingdom. ECE Regulation compliance is denoted by the marking of an E together with relevant approval numbers on relevant approved components.

Hope this helps. Regards, Diff. 

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

2 hours ago, Gazzar said:

I was wondering about why this is a problem, I've this arrangement on the 109, with relays, and I've never had a problem with it, it's as good as the eurobox up to motorway speeds.

 

Y'all going far too fast, or you need your eyes tested if wipecs and H4s aren't good enough.

 

Lol.

 

Having thought about this more ....as i was out last night driving in heavy rain I think the issue is compounded by going from huge white lit road clear as anything...down to dip only and a sort of yellow glow vs bright white.

I probably woukd nit have been travelling a quick as I was (which was not that gast) if I only had dip and main ....the LED light bars sort of give a over confidence / ability to see clearly and more so .

 

I think if I go LED the switching from light bar to dip only will be less of a shock if the dip is not just a bit better buy the white light as well ??

[Bowie69]

Certainly makes sense, I don't don't crystals + decent bulbs (Philips being my preference) are at all lacking, and I live in the middle of the back and beyond.

One other note, headlamps are supposed to be used in pairs under C&U regs, so a single light bar is *technically* an infringement of the regs, even if just on with main beam.

Equally, not sure many are certificated for road use either....

In short, it is a complete and utter minefield, with tripwires to boot.

[Gazzar]

I can see what you are coming from, actually. Are those bars legal on tarmac? 

I think they'd be great for night laning, and off road.

Maybe you need a second bar that's aimed down, with a shield to stop dazzle? Though that's probably too heath Robinson to be legal.

[Maverik]

4 hours ago, =jon= said:

I think existing standards will be accepted as the new 'UK' standards, so figs will still be given. We just in theory can overrule / make our own standards up as well...

Yeah I agree - a bit of a flippant response - now corrected.

I'm really surprised how there isn't anything solid come out from some governing body, as LED lights have been around for a good while now. With the whole Brexit going to keep legislation makers busy for years and years, I doubt this topic is at the top of anyone's list.

[Bowie69]

Hmmm, quite a good summary here:

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/blog/are-led-headlights-legal-in-the-uk/

[Escape]

4 hours ago, elbekko said:

They're interesting, I think @Escape tried a set in his Esprit and found it a bit too much? I've been thinking about getting a set of the H1s and putting them in the high beams though, legality and dazzling shouldn't really matter then.

It's actually in my Range Rover, not decided on the Esprit yet. I was quite happy with the Nightbreakers, but got a tip from a mate who tried LED H4 and H1s in his Esprit. So I got the same ones, from www.classiccarleds.co.uk. Very good light, I do need to check adjustment as it doesn't seem very sharp. Could be one is still set for RHD, which will give a strange pattern when combined with a LHD lamp body.

The big advantage for me is that you retain the standard look. There are LED-assemblies available for the Esprit as well, excellent light, but I'd be ashamed to use them as it would look like a Porker. 😛  

Filip

[Chicken Drumstick]

7 hours ago, RedLineMike said:

i have trucklite LED headlights on my 110, they work very well however the beam pattern takes a bit of getting used to as it has a dark spot directly in front of the vehicle, if i was buying another set i would look at the JW speaker heated LED headlights as the biggest flaw of LED headlights is driving in the snow, the lenses get covered over quite easily

Worth a 2nd mention about lack of heat out the front. Not an issue for most of the year. But if you live somewhere you do get snow often, it is likely to be more of a problem. 
 

 

[reb78]

5 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Worth a 2nd mention about lack of heat out the front. Not an issue for most of the year. But if you live somewhere you do get snow often, it is likely to be more of a problem. 
 

 

I had this issue with my Truklites when driving through Somerset, Devon and Cornwall when the Beast from the East hit the other year. I had to stop every 20 mins or so to clear the lenses. I had to hope out and do it quickly so that the cars I had passed didnt crawl past again and risk them getting stuck in front of me. Eventually the snow got so bad that normal cars and lorries were stuck so that passed ... I have wondered if some old style wipers from a round headlight car could be made to fit the front of the 110....

I think most stuff has been said already. The Truklites fall under the lumen output to require self levelling etc so they don't fall into the same category as HIDs. Interesting to hear they have fixed that dark patch in front of the vehicle on the later models too. These also have filaments in the lens to overcome the problem in the picture above.

[=jon=]

10 minutes ago, reb78 said:

I think most stuff has been said already. The Truklites fall under the lumen output to require self levelling etc so they don't fall into the same category as HIDs. Interesting to hear they have fixed that dark patch in front of the vehicle on the later models too. These also have filaments in the lens to overcome the problem in the picture above.

I've not seen the light output on the newer ones, but it's supposed to be better:

Quote

These are the second, improved generation of Truck-Lite 7 “LED Headlight. They offer considerably better illumination in front of the vehicle and an overall slightly higher light intensity.

I don't think they do them with the heating elements in the UK, I've never seen it listed as a feature...  The only UK spec ones I've see are JW Speakers which are crazy money:

https://www.mobilecentre.co.uk/j-w-speaker-evo2-8700-smartheat-dual-burn-led-headlamp-defender-kit-uk-black-heated

 

[ThreePointFive]

Watching with interest as I have converted my car to LED all-round except headlights. I have the Wipac side/brake/indicator package which were sold as E marked and fully road legal. Sounds like they fit into this grey area of not being specifically ok under law.

[Anderzander]

16 hours ago, =jon= said:

I've not seen the light output on the newer ones, but it's supposed to be better:

I don't think they do them with the heating elements in the UK, I've never seen it listed as a feature...  The only UK spec ones I've see are JW Speakers which are crazy money:

https://www.mobilecentre.co.uk/j-w-speaker-evo2-8700-smartheat-dual-burn-led-headlamp-defender-kit-uk-black-heated

 

Wow 😮 I wasn’t expecting THAT expensive.

[=jon=]

10 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

Watching with interest as I have converted my car to LED all-round except headlights. I have the Wipac side/brake/indicator package which were sold as E marked and fully road legal. Sounds like they fit into this grey area of not being specifically ok under law.

If they were marked as road legal and they are LED 'units' then you are probably OK - the grey area is putting LEDs as replacements for incandescent bulbs... 

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, =jon= said:

If they were marked as road legal and they are LED 'units' then you are probably OK - the grey area is putting LEDs as replacements for incandescent bulbs... 

That's what I was going to say. Complete units are fine. I can't find the MOT manual bit I saw literally only a few days ago about the LED in a filament housing. Will ask my tester mate as it was he who posted it on Faceache.

[landroversforever]

Worth remembering too that the run-out models of the Defender had LED rear lights (maybe just the Autobiography one?). I think the 60th Anniversary model did too. 

[L19MUD]

21 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

One other note, headlamps are supposed to be used in pairs under C&U regs, so a single light bar is *technically* an infringement of the regs, even if just on with main beam.

Is it really single though? Mine has something like 4 rows of 50 LED's (I made that up but you get the idea) so does each LED count as an individual light?

 

Might go and check in case there are odd numbers in a row now......!!

[elbekko]

1 minute ago, L19MUD said:

Is it really single though? Mine has something like 4 rows of 50 LED's (I made that up but you get the idea) so does each LED count as an individual light?

 

Might go and check in case there are odd numbers in a row now......!!

Indeed. My lightbar is 6 lights, so technically an even number.

And, not actually wired for regular road use, as mine doesn't come on with the high beams, but on a purely separate switch (most often gets used as a work light really).

[=jon=]

28 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

That's what I was going to say. Complete units are fine. I can't find the MOT manual bit I saw literally only a few days ago about the LED in a filament housing. Will ask my tester mate as it was he who posted it on Faceache.

I think most MOT testers use a bit of common sense - an LED bulb of 'appropriate' brightness in something like a sidelight shouldn't cause an issue (or really look any different to the original!), the rules are supposedly to stop people putting LED / HID replacement bulbs in headlights with poor beam pattern which causes dazzling/safety issues for other drivers..

[landroversforever]

Just now, =jon= said:

I think most MOT testers use a bit of common sense - an LED bulb of 'appropriate' brightness in something like a sidelight shouldn't cause an issue (or really look any different to the original!), the rules are supposedly to stop people putting LED / HID replacement bulbs in headlights with poor beam pattern which causes dazzling/safety issues for other drivers..

Yeah, I was meaning for the headlights for where beam pattern is important.

[=jon=]

The relevant MOT bits have already been posted on this thread BTW: 

 

[Bowie69]

17 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

Is it really single though? Mine has something like 4 rows of 50 LED's (I made that up but you get the idea) so does each LED count as an individual light?

 

Might go and check in case there are odd numbers in a row now......!!

 

14 minutes ago, elbekko said:

Indeed. My lightbar is 6 lights, so technically an even number.

And, not actually wired for regular road use, as mine doesn't come on with the high beams, but on a purely separate switch (most often gets used as a work light really).

A lamp is a lamp, not the individual components

Equally, there is a limit to the number of white lamps fitted to the front of the vehicle, either six or eight, I just remember right now

So either way you fall foul of the regs...

[landroversforever]

9 minutes ago, =jon= said:

The relevant MOT bits have already been posted on this thread BTW: 

 

That's missing the explanation of the 'Light source and lamp not compatible'. I'm buggered if I can find it, but the page I'm trying to find specifically mentioned LED and HID in a housing designed for a filament and that it's a Major fail.

[ThreePointFive]

On 12/21/2020 at 8:14 AM, Maverik said:

 I'm sure I read something not long ago where an owner was asked to remove all LED lights off his truck by a particularly detailed MOT inspector. 

 

It was this that made me question my kit, but that said, I'm more worried from an 'on paper' legal compliance point of view and not just passing the MOT.

I also wonder if declaring these on your insurance (legal or not) will mean you're covered, or if the "roadworthy" clause in most contracts would trump that, but that's a rabbit hole.

[=jon=]

23 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said:

It was this that made me question my kit, but that said, I'm more worried from an 'on paper' legal compliance point of view and not just passing the MOT.

I also wonder if declaring these on your insurance (legal or not) will mean you're covered, or if the "roadworthy" clause in most contracts would trump that, but that's a rabbit hole.

If they have the relevant ECE markings on the lens then you should be fully OK...

[Tim2809]

As a recently retired tester who asked dvsa about the led bulbs fitted into a headlamp designed for a halogen lamp and how they stated hid is an immediate fail, they also said an led light source is not compatible with a halogen lamp unit so is also a fail. 
ive tested a few with led headlight bulbs and the pattern is generally awful and incorrect anyway. 
they were marginally better with headlamps which had the pattern in the glass rather than reflector. 
retro fitted led bulbs or light units  in indicators, brakes, sidelights are all ok for mot.