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3 hours ago, =jon= said:

There's something 'weird' with LED and HID lights in certain lights - especially in dusk, and when the road is damp - it seems to suck all of the light up and makes you think there's something wrong with the headlights...

I've been told it's because both LED and HID emit a very narrow range of light colours, whereas a normal bulb emits quite a broad range, so the latter will work better in all conditions, even if not as bright..

I honestly have no such problem with the multibeam LED on my Mercedes. But that's also a bit different class to aftermarket LEDs.

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20 minutes ago, elbekko said:

I honestly have no such problem with the multibeam LED on my Mercedes. But that's also a bit different class to aftermarket LEDs.

Likewise. And the times I have thought they're performing a bit naff I get home and see the lense is plastered with dirt.

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7 hours ago, =jon= said:

There's something 'weird' with LED and HID lights in certain lights - especially in dusk, and when the road is damp - it seems to suck all of the light up and makes you think there's something wrong with the headlights...

You are right - certain tarmac colours do it too - i.e. the M20 in Kent has a lot of brown coloured tarmac and its much harder on that than when on proper black tarmac!

Its a funny one because I really didnt like it initially, but I could see. I think its the fact that in dawn/dusk light, halogens give a comforting yellow hue.. the LEDs dont, but you can still see... I almost had to train my mind that it was ok!

On full beam I have two halogen spotlights so I dont have such an issue then but obviously thats off when travelling in heavy traffic.

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Its still saying the same things and talking about conversion of the headlamp unit, not replacement with a full LED headlamp. So not an issue if you replace the whole headlamp for one designed for LEDs (and properly E marked etc) 

Edited by reb78
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48 minutes ago, Snagger said:

It appears a moot point, if this is real (screen shot from a friend’s post on Facebook, new UK legislation):

E609B703-AD99-455E-9F01-ECF1B0B23048.jpeg

That’s the one I’d seen and was trying to find. But as posted afterwards that’s about the conversion ‘bulbs’ rather than a complete unit. 

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3 minutes ago, elbekko said:

Not that it's really relevant to me, but would that apply only to the low-beam lamps, or also the high-beam lamps as found in fe. a P38, where there's a separate set of H1s for the high beams?

The wording just specifies "headlamp units", nothing about the beam - so looks like yes it would, even if the main beam is a completely separate housing.

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1 hour ago, Ed Poore said:

Still relevant as it basically outlaws the bulbs that I linked up above from my interpretation of it. I'd be curious to see what happens at the next MOT.

Even a conversion from a standard filament bulb to an LED bulb in a side/ tail light is illegal. So I was informed when I rang the MoD. 

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4 hours ago, Snagger said:

It appears a moot point, if this is real (screen shot from a friend’s post on Facebook, new UK legislation):

E609B703-AD99-455E-9F01-ECF1B0B23048.jpeg

 

Must have been updated, here is my post from the inspection manual, earlier in this thread:

 

 

....and here is the link directly to the section in the inspection manual, confirming the above:

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment#section-4-1-4

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There are revisions to the testers manual, the addition of LED bulbs used in halogen headlamps, in addition to the original HID reference is just one.

I think they just left LED out of the original text in error, in practice nothing has really changed.

As I said earlier, most (all probably) Halogen headlamps converted to use HIDs or LEDs give an incorrect beam pattern, this alone is enough to fail "Beam image obviously incorrect" without the "Light source and lamp not compatible" failure.

This does not affect headlamps originally designed to take HIDs or LEDs providing they show a correct beam pattern.

LED bulbs in any other light units are not covered as they are not checked for beam pattern like headlamps are.

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42 minutes ago, pat_pending said:

As I said earlier, most (all probably) Halogen headlamps converted to use HIDs or LEDs give an incorrect beam pattern, this alone is enough to fail "Beam image obviously incorrect" without the "Light source and lamp not compatible" failure.

 

Many will give far better beam patterns with much better cut off. Seen it in person multiple times on different vehicles. Some don't I agree, but you can't tarnish all with the same brush IMO.

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9 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Many will give far better beam patterns with much better cut off. Seen it in person multiple times on different vehicles. Some don't I agree, but you can't tarnish all with the same brush IMO.

I'd certainly say genuine HID/LED units give a very good throw of light with a sharp, almost too sharp cut off.

However I can't remember seeing a converted headlamp that didn't have a "torch" beam.

Not saying they don't exist, and I've seen more HID conversions than LED, just that's my experience.

It's not the main part of my job, but I still do about 70 MOTs a month so I do see a lot of headlights!

HID conversions were very popular a few years ago and they always failed the beam pattern test, quite a few had no main beam either as the single filament HID replaced the twin dip/main halogen bulb.

 

I'm not convinced current aftermarket LEDs are any better, considering the cost, than a good halogen.

I've got Ring ultima bulbs in both the Freelander and the 110, the 110 also has Wipac crystals and uprated/relayed wiring, I've never found the headlamps inadequate in either vehicle.

Auxiliary lamps are a different matter.

 

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1 hour ago, pat_pending said:

I'd certainly say genuine HID/LED units give a very good throw of light with a sharp, almost too sharp cut off.

However I can't remember seeing a converted headlamp that didn't have a "torch" beam.

Not saying they don't exist, and I've seen more HID conversions than LED, just that's my experience.

It's not the main part of my job, but I still do about 70 MOTs a month so I do see a lot of headlights!

HID conversions were very popular a few years ago and they always failed the beam pattern test, quite a few had no main beam either as the single filament HID replaced the twin dip/main halogen bulb.

 

I'm not convinced current aftermarket LEDs are any better, considering the cost, than a good halogen.

I've got Ring ultima bulbs in both the Freelander and the 110, the 110 also has Wipac crystals and uprated/relayed wiring, I've never found the headlamps inadequate in either vehicle.

Auxiliary lamps are a different matter.

 

This was a number of years back. And note it isn't on a public road.

LED in the right hand/drivers lamp, Osram Nightbreaker halogen in the left hand lamp.

B1543059-5990-48C4-8CD5-5B83AE2AC06A.jpg

 

The LED certainly light the ground up better to the eye. You can sort of see this in the photo, note where the right hand bank grass gets longer (directly above the p in the photobucket stamp), you can see the ground is illuminated better. From the drivers seat this was vastly noticeable. A real big leap in illumination.

From the front view, note the LED actually has less glare than the halogen. The halogens are aligned and recently MoT tested.

277948D5-91E7-4810-8BD5-BB5AC8DE94B3.jpg

 

I did get the MoT station to check the LED alignment and it was bang on according to their test machine. With LEDs in both lamps the cut off is clean (I don't have a pic of the halogens, but it looked essentially the same). But you can clearly see they are not a torch beam, nor would they be dazzling on coming traffic.

6C919E8C-AB1B-4D13-875F-E541D6C140A1.jpg

 

These were H4 bulbs, but the LEDs are placed to align with the halogen filament. One LED is also hooded for the dip beam.

76DC415E-1A6E-42CF-8C99-14EDCBBD0862.jpg

 

The lenses also had scatter shields:

9CE8B67E-F639-4A36-A171-E0CA995EB71B.jpg

 

I do agree there are many designs of LED bulb which don't work well and some lamps will not work as well either. But get the right combo and they are fine. Remember halogen bulbs are not identical, the filament is a different size and location across brands and types. So the beam can vary even with a halogen bulb. It is this reason Maglite torches have an adjustable focus, to overcome the short comings of halogen bulbs and the variance in manufacture.

 

I have tried the above bulbs in some Wipac Land Rover lamps (smooth mirror and cut lens type). They worked well in those too. The amount more light was less than the Subaru. I can only conclude the Wipac was maybe a more efficient design. But they still felt like an improvement, just not such a big one. The beam pattern was 100% the same with the LEDs however, including the same beam artefacts the halogen products, but the cutoff was clean, sharp and in the same place.

 

 

 

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It is unfortunate and even unfair that the high quality LED bulbs like your are banned in a one-size-fits-all manner.  The cheaper  types did have pattern problems and poor output, but the same is true of most of the cheap complete lamp LED units, yet they are not impacted by this rule.  It’s poor legislation, though the intention was good.

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Just to add another area of topic (maybe not useful?).

I recently had the pleasure if driving in the recent mild fog/mist on the M4 to get my wife to work. It was very noticeable that the newer cars with very bright white beam headlights (can't say what type) were so bright as to be a hindrance in the conditions and would be dangerous in thicker fog. Obviously this is only relevant in that the drivers were not using front fog lights and turned off headlights so more an education thing but then most people drive with both on not either or nowadays.

It is also noticeable that these same cars are dazzling 1st lane car drivers when they are overtaking in the 2nd or 3rd lanes as although the dip beam alignment is correct the lane positioning means the lane one car is in the kick up of the pattern. Many times the inside of my car was in daylight not good for the night vision.

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5 hours ago, Snagger said:

It is unfortunate and even unfair that the high quality LED bulbs like your are banned in a one-size-fits-all manner.  The cheaper  types did have pattern problems and poor output, but the same is true of most of the cheap complete lamp LED units, yet they are not impacted by this rule.  It’s poor legislation, though the intention was good.

They’d still get picked up on the poor pattern though.

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4 hours ago, landroversforever said:

They’d still get picked up on the poor pattern though.

Oh, I’m not the type to suggest breaking the rules “because...”.  They’re there for a reason, not always well thought out, but rarely very punitive.

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