Anderzander Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 This is quite informative on the new Defender. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Now that is a useful and practical review from someone inan industry that used to be one of LR's main targets and customers. As has been said many times before, 80k and a weird model placement is a real had scratcher to many though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Does anyone know what a base-ish model runout 110 CSW was going for when new? Trying to compare apples with apples, as far as possible... £80K seems barmy, but of the old one was 60K, it doesn't quite so much! To think, one of the reasons given for binning the old Defender was it was too expensive to produce... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 £81k is stupid, he would get all the bits he needs and none of the bits he doesn’t for £50k - or less if he went for a commercial version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) Personally I find £50k is still ridiculous for this car.... £81k is bonkers! According to Parkers a new 110 TD5 CSW in 2006 was £24,472 - according to a couple of inflation calculators online that is now worth £33k-£35k today.... Its not the same vehicle though - so comparing the 'Discovery 4+' with the actual Defender probably doesn't make sense, but it does show that land rover have jumped several price brackets with their new Disoverydefender.... (oh - and to be fair to Harry - I dont think he has bought that vehicle, it sounded like an extended test drive from a dealership and they left the build cost for that vehicle in the car??) Edited January 2, 2021 by reb78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Don't look at the purchase-price; look at what it costs-per-month on a 3-year business lease. Then remember that you can slice 20% off that cost when you reclaim the VAT. The vast majority of Hiluxes, Rangers, L200s are leased these days: it makes serious cashflow-sense even if you're a sole trader or D/B/A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tanuki said: Don't look at the purchase-price; look at what it costs-per-month on a 3-year business lease. Then remember that you can slice 20% off that cost when you reclaim the VAT. The vast majority of Hiluxes, Rangers, L200s are leased these days: it makes serious cashflow-sense even if you're a sole trader or D/B/A. I cant access the 20% business discount though as I am a normal commoner I dont beleive in HP either so like to own what I have.... modern car buying probably isnt for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 I don't think the base price is that silly, considering what they're asking for a Golf nowadays. More egregious is how fast a couple options add up. The biggest hurdle for me is the high CO2, which makes it impossible to own as a business vehicle in Belgium, unless you can prove it's 100% for business use. Otherwise you're paying BIK, which is 1k/month on the lowest diesel. Hopefully a bit more sensible in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 I have slept since then, and I'm too lazy to dig the paperwork out, but if memory serves me correctly the last 4 Defender 110 XS CSW's I personally bought new with my own cash came in at around 30k. That was a negotiated price that included quite a few pricey toys to sweeten the deals. During that time there was a marked deterioration in customer service. Pick up and delivery of courtesy vehicles when warranty fixes were required [which they all did at one time or another] became a time consuming chore as nearby, long established, dealerships closed resulting in longer and longer trips to dealerships. Also during that time and a few years preceding there was a marked change among many new Defender owners. Polishing paintwork and and fitting loads of expensive off road kit mostly for looks seemed to be becoming popular. Build quality became poorer as did the quality control with regards warranty work. I just got fed up with it all. Yes I could have fixed things myself, and I did but there are limits - especially after you've laid down a pretty substantial amount for another cash buy. Besides, by that time I had gone past some of the willy waving seen on some forums where kudos is gained by eating rust flakes for breakfast and having no other hobbies other than fixing up and repairing stuff. As I said been there, done that long before some of the poo pooing types were able to walk. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Thanks HoG... So allowing for a little inflation, and your discounts, if we said 40K retail, probably not far off.... And this one is 80K. I suppose if the commercial variant comes in at 40K it will seem not too bad, but it may leave the 80K owners wondering where there 40K went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 18 hours ago, Tanuki said: Don't look at the purchase-price; look at what it costs-per-month on a 3-year business lease. Then remember that you can slice 20% off that cost when you reclaim the VAT. The vast majority of Hiluxes, Rangers, L200s are leased these days: it makes serious cashflow-sense even if you're a sole trader or D/B/A. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here as leasing costs are directly proportional to the purchase cost and the residual value at the end of the lease term. So for example a £50K car that’s worth £25K in 3 years is going to cost twice as much to lease as a £25K vehicle that’s worth £12.5K in 3 years. Now I get the fact that a £50K vehicle that’s worth £35K is going to cost a lot less to lease than a vehicle that costs £50K and is worth £20K in 3 years, but that didn’t seem the point you were trying to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 As said before by many - we're not the market for JLR. IF you guys think £ 81k is bad - wait for the French on the road price... You'll stop complaining as LRF will happily give you s showroom price but are somewhat vague in what the "on the road" figures are. And they are worse. than you can possibly think. In Holland they start at € 101k (basic model) and got to the € 128K without options. France is worse.. So, nice car etc. and I could make the accountant happy to lease one, but I won't. But others obviously do as even here you start seeing them more and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Is that some kind of Le Rosbif Tax or applied to all foreign vehicles? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Some kind of luxury car tax I believe. We are relatively lucky in the UK that all we get hit with is an elevated first few years of vehicle tax over a certain value (£40k I think?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 On 1/2/2021 at 12:35 PM, Retroanaconda said: £81k is stupid, he would get all the bits he needs and none of the bits he doesn’t for £50k - or less if he went for a commercial version. You are right. I had a quick play on the configurator, starting with the base 110 adding the county pack and the towing pack, which comes with traction control and so forth and a diff, and it all came in at about 51K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 9 hours ago, SteveG said: I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here as leasing costs are directly proportional to the purchase cost and the residual value at the end of the lease term. So for example a £50K car that’s worth £25K in 3 years is going to cost twice as much to lease as a £25K vehicle that’s worth £12.5K in 3 years. Now I get the fact that a £50K vehicle that’s worth £35K is going to cost a lot less to lease than a vehicle that costs £50K and is worth £20K in 3 years, but that didn’t seem the point you were trying to make. The thing is, a business can lease a £50K vehicle on, say, a 3-year-plan, it's both VAT-deductible and the lease-payments are entirely seen as legitimate business-costs, so they come off your balance-sheet before any considerations of 'profit' are made. Meaning you get to pay £500/month to drive a nice vehicle that impresses your customers/clients and that £500/month is not your _personal_ tax-liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 I get all that, but again not sure what point you were trying to make. People were commenting how expensive the Defender it is. The Hilux’s, Rangers and L200’s you mentioned being leased in your post will all be a lot less over a 3 year lease compared to a Defender. I just looked up an example for a 3 year lease, 10K miles p.a. and 1 month upfront payment... Defender 110 - £793 p.m. https://www.vanarama.com/land-rover-van-leasing/defender/3-0-d300-hard-top-hse-auto-10066.html Top spec Wildtrack auto Ranger - £375 p.m. https://www.vanarama.com/ford-van-leasing/ranger/pick-up-double-cab-wildtrak-2-0-ecoblue-213-auto-9948.html so more than twice as much for the Defender in this example, or over £15K extra in lease payments over 3 years. To buy the 110 costs about £50K with no extras, the Ranger £33K so about 1.5x (probably get a higher discount on Ranger, so no doubt higher ratio). All prices ex VAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremySteel Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I'm an avid Harry (farm and garage) watcher and saw it at the weekend. The wading through that pond amused me. He had the P400 6pot version which is mad money. Yes, they're overpriced but I seem to recall he said he was considering chopping in his old RR for one. Don't forget that Harry is rolling in dosh so using a £50k car as a mini-tractor isn't quite so significant to him (I'm envious). LR will never price compete with the excellent 4x4 pickups that are around. I think he said he was going to do a proper review soon. I'd like to see the difference in performance with standard versus electronic diff option, which I'm guess is a fancy LSD. I have a P300 and fuel consumption is frightening. By the way, did anyone see a recent Vintage Voltage where they electrified a Defender (modified by the owner). It went like a rocket, but I wonder what it's range would be if towing a big caravan or horse-box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 12 hours ago, JeremySteel said: By the way, did anyone see a recent Vintage Voltage where they electrified a Defender (modified by the owner). It went like a rocket, but I wonder what it's range would be if towing a big caravan or horse-box. Yes, saw that.... also saw it come up for sale afterwards so I guess it wasn't so easy to live with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 They're doing quite a few Defender conversions now, one was for Barbour (or something like it), so I expect after the publicity stunt was done, it was sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 20 hours ago, JeremySteel said: I'm an avid Harry (farm and garage) watcher and saw it at the weekend. The wading through that pond amused me. He had the P400 6pot version which is mad money. Yes, they're overpriced but I seem to recall he said he was considering chopping in his old RR for one. Don't forget that Harry is rolling in dosh so using a £50k car as a mini-tractor isn't quite so significant to him (I'm envious). LR will never price compete with the excellent 4x4 pickups that are around. I think he said he was going to do a proper review soon. I'd like to see the difference in performance with standard versus electronic diff option, which I'm guess is a fancy LSD. I have a P300 and fuel consumption is frightening. By the way, did anyone see a recent Vintage Voltage where they electrified a Defender (modified by the owner). It went like a rocket, but I wonder what it's range would be if towing a big caravan or horse-box. Going to be reviewed on his other channel. On 1/2/2021 at 2:16 PM, reb78 said: Personally I find £50k is still ridiculous for this car.... £81k is bonkers! According to Parkers a new 110 TD5 CSW in 2006 was £24,472 - according to a couple of inflation calculators online that is now worth £33k-£35k today.... Its not the same vehicle though - so comparing the 'Discovery 4+' with the actual Defender probably doesn't make sense, but it does show that land rover have jumped several price brackets with their new Disoverydefender.... (oh - and to be fair to Harry - I dont think he has bought that vehicle, it sounded like an extended test drive from a dealership and they left the build cost for that vehicle in the car??) He's got it in for his Harry's Garage channel and while he's got it has done a review from just the farm side. As for the build cost, Harry is very good on the car stuff at actually going through what the test models cost and the way manufacturers pile options on the press cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I saw a brief review by the Hamster and he said what I've said for ages. I think the main thing they got wrong was the names, this would have been one hell of a Disco 5... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Ed Poore said: I saw a brief review by the Hamster and he said what I've said for ages. I think the main thing they got wrong was the names, this would have been one hell of a Disco 5... I've said that a lot too Ed. Despite my constant moaning, I like the Vehicle but the name is so ****ing wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Freelander 3 😁 Just saying ! Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 4 hours ago, Mo Murphy said: Freelander 3 😁 Just saying ! Mo When did the Freelander ever have low range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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