Snagger Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 This is what upsets so many Defender fans - it’s the positioning of this vehicle in the lineage of the Series and Defender line, rather than as a separate model like the Discovery, Freelander or whatever else. This vehicle fits well in the Discovery camp, but is the antithesis of what Defenders are all about. So, the upset is that they killed the Defender, promised a replacement and gave us something totally inappropriate and gave it the same name. They doubled down on destroying the name and the heritage. The new model is very clever, too clever to be trusted many argue, but an excellent option for those who want a family SUV. It is hopeless for anyone wanting a working vehicle. The name is as much the problem as its predictable electronics reliability. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 What’s happened was entirely predictable, and is basically a result of LR getting too greedy. They wanted their 3 brands, Range Rover, Discovery and Defender to each have multiple vehicles and capture as much of the growing SUV market as possible. The problem is instead of toughening up the Discovery brand to make it more rugged/adventurous to reinforce that brand perception of LR, but also make it appealing to a wide audience of families, young, old etc. and differentiate the discovery from other car makers. Instead they’ve softened up the Defender, so as it’s been said numerous times before the Defender will do well, but in doing so it will most likely kill off the Discovery brand. They should have kept the Defender name either for small volume tough off-roader either as a separate vehicle or as a more rugged version of the other vehicle ranges, like Mercedes does with AMG. Have their Nurburgring SVR version if they must, but also have a paired out off road ready version too. Now you’re going to get a V8 SVR Defender that can lap the Nurburgring in under 8 minutes 🙄. The new Defender Sport (if that’s it’s name) will become the “entry level” for the Defender brand in the way that the Discovery Sport is for that brand and Evoque is for RR. Basically a smaller, ‘cheaper’ version of Defender. This will probably have the effect of killing off the Discovery Sport sales - I think this is their current biggest volume seller. So the end result is you have Jeep, Ford and potentially Ineos doing a better job of building an off road/adventure vehicle, with the risk that this further dents the LR brand value. Add into the mix electrification, where going forward the main difference between vehicles will be how they look and the software, not how they drive and you question whether LR can survive. They’re not exactly well know for their software prowess. Instead you have companies like Rivian demonstrating better off-road/adventure abilities for EV’s. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Agreed, Steve. They should have made this vehicle the Discovery 5, and be done with it, instead of having it compete with the Discovery and cause brand confusion as well as increased logistics and production costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 There's a nice hole in the market that the Jimny has left, a medium sized off roader (the latest version was no longer small, IMHO), with all the basics and nothing else. But I suspect McGovern couldn't bring himself that low. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 I agree that there is room, scope and want for smaller capable 4x4's in the market. The 2 door Wrangler is still fairly compact, but pricey. I wouldn't however call the Jimny mid sized. It is more akin to an 88" Series 1 in dimensions, maybe a tad narrower across the bulkhead. The current 4th Gen Jimny uses largely the same chassis as the 3rd Gen did with very similar overall dimensions. Some earlier variants of the marque may have been even smaller, but the Jimny in narrow body trim still qualifies as a Kei car in Japan. This is my one. Looks quite tiny next to the Land Rovers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Fair enough, had forgotten they were still Kei.... Tiny, but I had a previous generation Jimmy, and never felt cramped in it, at 6ft tall, in a Kei, it was quite something. Everything you needed really, if only the rest of the population decided that they didn't need 300bhp in a 2t vehicle we'd all be a lot better off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Review from Harry, 5pm tonight: https://twitter.com/harrym_vids/status/1350750816265773056 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Watching that.... The straight 6 petrol sounds lovely.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 That was a good, fair and balanced review. With Harry having done this, I'm not going to watch any more reviews on it as I thnk there is little, if anything, left to learn and it's getting repetitious. Yes, it's a Discovery 6, yes it's very good off road, yes it's very expensive. I'd own one, but not out of warranty. I really quite like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Just now, ThreePointFive said: That was a good, fair and balanced review. That's what I love about Harry's video's. Be it a car review, talking about the farm, going into the facts and figures of his collection or facts and figures about ICE vs electric its always a balanced look at everything. None of the all too often youtuber rubbish where they're worried about saying the wrong thing and not getting another car, or they're reviewing something they know nothing about. Same reason why I like listening to people like Andrew Frankel, Clarkson et-al, not some youtube yuppy who's reviewing the latest supercar with no background knowledge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Good review. Still not sold on the looks, price or that I would probably feel guilty chucking a load of muddy, dirty, sh!tty cr@p in the back. I'm quite sold on the 4x4 pickups with a canopy in that respect which is why I like my Ranger so much and will probably buy another if my current health issues permit. They are relatively cheap to buy and designed to do a job, I'm not sure what 'job' this new Defender is supposed to do, strikes me it's a more plastic and gadget filled people carrier than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, Happyoldgit said: I would probably feel guilty chucking a load of muddy, dirty, sh!tty cr@p in the back. Always made me laugh that my Aunt'y good friend always used to use her Bentley Arnage for everything... be that a tip run or bags of compost from the garden centre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 It's growing on me if i'm honest, but i think it's overpriced for the majority of the tight fisted farmers i know. A 10 year old pickup can be bought for 4-5k and run into the ground over the next 10 years with not alot of cost thrown at it, they are simply trucks and very cheap in comparision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 16 hours ago, landroversforever said: That's what I love about Harry's video's. Be it a car review, talking about the farm, going into the facts and figures of his collection or facts and figures about ICE vs electric its always a balanced look at everything. None of the all too often youtuber rubbish where they're worried about saying the wrong thing and not getting another car, or they're reviewing something they know nothing about. Same reason why I like listening to people like Andrew Frankel, Clarkson et-al, not some youtube yuppy who's reviewing the latest supercar with no background knowledge. I do like clarkson as a writer, i think he's spot on with his way with words, as a person, he's abit of a pillock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 The good thing about having a farm is that there's plenty of room to torch a new Pretender 😬 Mo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 I know this model was 400 bhp, but 17 MPG 😲😲😲. That's probably not far off a Supercharged RRS consumption. The engine certainly sounded nice - I could almost enjoy that in place of a V8 soundtrack. In fact the sound is reminiscent of the 300SE Merc my dad once had - another straight 6 that could take off like a startled cat I rather like Harry's presenting style. I know nothing of him but he's certainly a very watchable motoring presenter. Seems pretty free of BS and bias. This made for possibly the best review of the new Defender that I've seen to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Have to note the 17mpg was a lot of off road and towing kids about on sledges, I doubt that helped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 54 minutes ago, mickeyw said: I know this model was 400 bhp, but 17 MPG 😲😲😲. That's probably not far off a Supercharged RRS consumption. The engine certainly sounded nice - I could almost enjoy that in place of a V8 soundtrack. In fact the sound is reminiscent of the 300SE Merc my dad once had - another straight 6 that could take off like a startled cat I rather like Harry's presenting style. I know nothing of him but he's certainly a very watchable motoring presenter. Seems pretty free of BS and bias. This made for possibly the best review of the new Defender that I've seen to date. I’ve done a few 15mpg average journeys in the mini ... and that’s only a 2L turbo 4 pot. As for Harry, he’s come from a farming background, but from a car point of view he was behind the start of EVO magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 10 hours ago, Bowie69 said: Have to note the 17mpg was a lot of off road and towing kids about on sledges, I doubt that helped! Nevertheless, if I could get that level of economy, even on motorway cruising, in my 1990 Range Rover 3.9 I would be delighted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/19/2021 at 6:29 AM, Brian said: Nevertheless, if I could get that level of economy, even on motorway cruising, in my 1990 Range Rover 3.9 I would be delighted. What have you done to it?! Mine would manage 18.5mpg on a motorway run, on LPG. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Geoff, my comment wasn't too serious. I also get about 18-19 mpg on motorway runs really, but overall, the thirstiest new Defender is still like an economy car compared to my Range Rover, in the same conditions. I get only about 12 - 13 mpg around town. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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