reb78 481 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) I have run a 300tdi pump on my 200tdi for a fairly long period whilst mine was being reconditioned. It ran the same to me as the driver but I don't know if you would notice any difference if the differences are minor? Edited January 25 by reb78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monkie 382 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Was it a straight swap, you didn't have to make any adjustments to timing or anything? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
reb78 481 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 15 minutes ago, monkie said: Was it a straight swap, you didn't have to make any adjustments to timing or anything? No nothing. I borrowed it from vulcan bomber here. We fitted it on the drive and just timed it up as normal using the timing pin. I probably did a few thousand (maybe 5000) miles on it but you wouldnt have known the difference when driving. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eightpot 267 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 300/200 pumps are direct swaps, have also used 300 pumps on 200 engines, no difference in operation. So from the data I can find so far, aside from some minor timing differences there seems to be no difference in the pumps internally. Crack pressures on 200/300 injectors seem to be the same - 200 then 280 bar So if pump is the same, injector pressures the same, the slightly bigger nozzle holes would alter the spray slightly - maybe in conjunction with the modified pistons/combustion area it's part of the revision to remove some of the clatter when they changed to 300? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRC200Tdi 21 Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 I just got off the phone with Bosch USA and neither the 200Tdi 300Tdi nozzles are available here. The tech service person said they are both listed as 'out of stock' which he surmised to mean that they no longer have access to them. He recommended I search the internet 😪 I have created a table with all of the DSLA145P nozzles so you can reference the different types. nozzle table.xlsx 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRC200Tdi 21 Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 Note, it seems we are limited to the nozzles that indicate 2 springs,so there might not be any other alternatives Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eightpot 267 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Very useful thanks - so in summary we're stuck with slightly unobtainable genuine 200tdi nozzles, aftermarket 200tdi nozzles or 300tdi nozzles. According to my very fallable maths, the total area of the 300tdi five .26mm holes is 17% larger than five .24mm holes. Seems like quite a jump but I wonder if theres a noticeable difference in operation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monkie 382 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I still think this case is still very much open. I haven't proven the ebay nozzles to be fakes. I'm going to perform some tests to compare original (as far as I can tell) used nozzles, ebay nozzle, Eurocarparts nozzle, ebay 300Tdi nozzle on a 200 Tdi injector) for opening pressures and spray patterns... watch this space. (my tests don't involve angle/bench grinders ) 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smallfry 142 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 38 minutes ago, monkie said: watch this space. (my tests don't involve angle/bench grinders ) Coward 😄 Clearly not a PROPER test then ! All joking aside, anyone have access to a Brinell ? tester ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monkie 382 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Just now, smallfry said: Coward 😄 Clearly not a PROPER test then ! All joking aside, anyone have access to a Brinell ? tester ? Happy to sell you the nozzles at cost price with the proviso that I want to see you test them with a plasma cutter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRC200Tdi 21 Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 FYI, I reached out to Turbo Diesel UK and they quoted me a price of $58.86 per nozzle for genuine Bosch 300Tdi nozzles. I don't know if that is a good price or not, since I haven't researched 300Tdi nozzles at all, but so far they are the only genuine 300Tdi nozzles I have found on the web. @monkie I am eagerly awaiting the results of your tests! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRC200Tdi 21 Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 9 hours ago, Eightpot said: Very useful thanks - so in summary we're stuck with slightly unobtainable genuine 200tdi nozzles, aftermarket 200tdi nozzles or 300tdi nozzles. According to my very fallable maths, the total area of the 300tdi five .26mm holes is 17% larger than five .24mm holes. Seems like quite a jump but I wonder if theres a noticeable difference in operation. I calculated the same 😅 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eightpot 267 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Funny - I messaged them today as well and got a price on 200Tdi nozzles - quoted £48+vat for genuine Bosch kits which include O rings/washers. Also quoted £30+vat for DTP nozzles. Not a bad price but the address checks out to be a residential house. I have had similar prices from a couple of diesel parts specialists. Also had a quote from Darwen diesels on 200 nozzels - £15.25+vat each for DTP brand. I think at that price I might get a set and check them out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
reb78 481 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Did I imagine it or did someone on here have a tester? was it @oneandtwo?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oneandtwo 125 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Yes, I have a Hartridge tester. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eightpot 267 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 200tdi nozzles made by DTP have just arrived. Compared to an old 300tdi nozzle the holes do appear smaller - possibly due to wear but I suspect they may well be the correct spec rather than rebadged 300 nozzles. Will pop them in soon and test. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monkie 382 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/26/2021 at 8:59 PM, oneandtwo said: Yes, I have a Hartridge tester. If I can get the injectors and nozzles to you, would you be able to test them for us? I often go to Royal Cornwall Hospital for work so I may be able to drop them off (socially distanced of course). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monkie 382 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 The ebay "300 Tdi" nozzle is here, DLLA155P572. It arrived in the same packaging as all the others so I won't go over that again. Visually it is different. The needle has a protrusion on it the goes towards the injector body and the tip of the nozzle is different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eightpot 267 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Old original bosch 200 nozzle compared to new DTP nozzle, also old & new needles. New nozzles fitted - too early to tell if there's much difference though there seems to be less knock and maybe a little cleaner mid range. Did a timed run up a long speed sapping hill this morning, will compare results later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eightpot 267 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 So quick update on the DTP nozzles, seems a slight improvement over the old ones, timed run up a long hill dropped from 53 seconds to 53mph to 52 seconds to 55mph point to point. Fueling had been retarded a little due to excess smoke, seems to run cleaner now so will try again with a sensible tweak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRC200Tdi 21 Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 4 hours ago, monkie said: The ebay "300 Tdi" nozzle is here, DLLA155P572. It arrived in the same packaging as all the others so I won't go over that again. Visually it is different. The needle has a protrusion on it the goes towards the injector body and the tip of the nozzle is different. The DLLA155P572 looks very interesting. I wonder how a 155° spray angle would affect performance in a 200Tdi. I have noticed that the needles with the stem that protrude up into the offset bushing seem to be intended for a single spring (single stage) injector. There are some nozzles out there that have that stem that would be otherwise ideal for the 200Tdi and I have wondered if it was a simple as cutting it off, because they would be perfect to experiment with. @monkie besides the differences you noted, are the nozzle and needle dimensions exactly the same as the 200Tdi nozzles? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snagger 977 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 The holes look a little smaller in the original nozzle, but I may be imagining that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eightpot 267 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Snagger said: The holes look a little smaller in the original nozzle, but I may be imagining that. In my old/new 200 nozzles? I think they're the same, 300 looked a smidge bigger but they're smaller than a hair so hard to tell.. After putting a few miles on these DTP nozzles I'd be happy to recommend, 15 quid+vat at Derwen Diesels. The old bosch weren't terrible to be fair, 150k+ miles on mostly African fuel so hats off, pretty good going. if the fairies had swapped nozzles overnight I wouldn't really notice, but the new ones run with less smoke under load and I've been able to turn the fuel up to where it used to be without chugging smoke out. Could really do with a good run to see if economy has returned - last trip through France had me down to 22mpg where I used to get 32. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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