Don Del Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 I am a British expat living in La Paz, Bolivia. For the last ten years or so I have owned a 1999 3.5 V8 110 Station Wagon, the V8 being installed for export by the factory as part of an export order for the US Drug Enforcement Agency. It has currently just got a bit under 90,000 miles on the clock. For various reasons I am considering upgrading the camshaft and I am in the process of sourcing the required parts from the UK. From experience of importing parts over the last ten years I know that as a rule of thumb by the time I import a part it will cost me around twice its purchase price in the UK excluding VAT by the time shipping and customs duties are added. Also the option of exchanging an incorrect part is not available to me. For that reason I have to be particularly careful in specifying anything I order when various options exist. The engine in my vehicle has a suffix B serial number and has conventional V belts and a distributor with SU carbs. However the water pump is the STC488 one fitted, according to the overhaul manual I have, to the pre suffix B timing cover. To confuse matters further the oil filter cartidge is angled forward as per the suffix B timing cover. When ordering a camshaft kit it would logically be for a non serpentine engine I would have thought. But what about the overhaul kit for the oil pump? Would it be the for the eccentric gear type fitted to suffix B engines or for the more conventional gear pump previously fitted? I know that I could strip the engine down before ordering parts but I don't particularily want to have the truck off the road for a month waiting for them to arrive. Any help in getting me out of my quandry would be appreciated!! Cheers, Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 If you have a distributor, you need a long nose camshaft for the distributor drive gear. I think if you remove the distributor, you should be able to see the drive for the oil pump if it's the old style. Which would be consistent with the location of the oil filter. There was an intermediate version with a distributor that already had the poly-V belt, not sure what oil pump they used. But those were 3.9 or 4.2. STC488 is the latest version of the waterpump for old style V8 with carbs, it supercedes earlier numbers but should be functionally identical. Filip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Del Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 10 hours ago, Escape said: If you have a distributor, you need a long nose camshaft for the distributor drive gear. I think if you remove the distributor, you should be able to see the drive for the oil pump if it's the old style. Which would be consistent with the location of the oil filter. There was an intermediate version with a distributor that already had the poly-V belt, not sure what oil pump they used. But those were 3.9 or 4.2. STC488 is the latest version of the waterpump for old style V8 with carbs, it supercedes earlier numbers but should be functionally identical. Filip Thank you for the concise reply which has clarified things for me. cheers, Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrycol Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 You say with is a 1999 vehicle with a 3.5 - would seem unlikely as the 3.5 stopped being made in the early 90s to be replaced with the 3.9. Are you sure it is not a 3.9? The main change would be a better oil pump driven by the camshaft (different profile to a 3.5) and may save ordering the incorrect cam shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Maybe you could give us the full engine number, we should be able to decode it. It is unusual to have a carbed 3.5 in '99, but if the vehicle was a special build anything is possible. Garry does have a point about the camshaft being changed from the 3.5 to the 3.9 But we find the 3.9 cam works better in the 3.5 as well, so you'd want to order that anyway. Filip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Seconding comments above, clear photos from a few angles and the engine number would be of most help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Del Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 8 hours ago, Escape said: Maybe you could give us the full engine number, we should be able to decode it. It is unusual to have a carbed 3.5 in '99, but if the vehicle was a special build anything is possible. Garry does have a point about the camshaft being changed from the 3.5 to the 3.9 But we find the 3.9 cam works better in the 3.5 as well, so you'd want to order that anyway. Filip The vehicle is a special build, one of a batch of six I believe, for the US DEA here at the time, and is essentially a Td5 with a 3.5 V8 engine with SU carbs, distributor and conventional vee belts on the front pulleys. The engine number is 24G17916B. As I mentioned in my initial post the timing cover has the pre suffix B water pump and the presence of the distributor would indicate the presence of a pre suffix B oil pump. To confirm that the engine is a suffix B unit the outer rows of four cylinder head bolts are not present. Escape's first post clarified things for me after I had been wrong footed by the Overhaul Manual references to differences in suffix B engines. The engine is a suffix B unit with a pre suffix B timing cover to provide for an ignition system using a distributor. Cheers, Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Are you sure it has a distributor ? That looks like a couple of coil packs to me, plus I cannot see a king lead of separate ignition coil ? Cant see properly though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Del Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 30 minutes ago, smallfry said: Are you sure it has a distributor ? That looks like a couple of coil packs to me, plus I cannot see a king lead of separate ignition coil ? Cant see properly though. It was originally fitted with a distributor but it was replaced with a "dumpy dizzy" (a cut down distributor to provide drive to the oil pump) when I installed a Megajolt ignition system which incidentally performs brilliantly. Hence the coil packs. Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 32 minutes ago, Don Del said: It was originally fitted with a distributor but it was replaced with a "dumpy dizzy" (a cut down distributor to provide drive to the oil pump) when I installed a Megajolt ignition system which incidentally performs brilliantly. Hence the coil packs. Del OK, I see now. You omitted that small detail 😄 Can you post a picture of the housing that the oil filter screws onto ? This will confirm what oil pump you have, and which sort of camshaft you will need. If it has V belts, it SHOULD have a gear driven pump, and therefore a long nose camshaft, but some odd things do turn up from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Del Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 11 minutes ago, smallfry said: OK, I see now. You omitted that small detail 😄 Can you post a picture of the housing that the oil filter screws onto ? This will confirm what oil pump you have, and which sort of camshaft you will need. If it has V belts, it SHOULD have a gear driven pump, and therefore a long nose camshaft, but some odd things do turn up from time to time. It is chucking down with rain here at the moment but I will see what I can do about getting a photo of the housing tomorrow. In the meantime I have this photo which shows the oil filter cartridge:- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 I spied a Ford EDIS-8 module in one of the photos running the ignition, a decent choice combined with the megajolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Del Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 23 hours ago, smallfry said: OK, I see now. You omitted that small detail 😄 Can you post a picture of the housing that the oil filter screws onto ? This will confirm what oil pump you have, and which sort of camshaft you will need. If it has V belts, it SHOULD have a gear driven pump, and therefore a long nose camshaft, but some odd things do turn up from time to time. I have attached a couple of photos of the oil filter cartridge mounting which looks to be the pre suffix B straight gear type:- Any feed back appreciated. Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Del Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 18 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said: I spied a Ford EDIS-8 module in one of the photos running the ignition, a decent choice combined with the megajolt. I installed the Megajolt ignition system back in 2012 and it has been one of the best changes I have made to the old truck! It took a little while to get the ignition map sorted out but it is now working like a charm. Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Don Del said: I installed the Megajolt ignition system back in 2012 and it has been one of the best changes I have made to the old truck! It took a little while to get the ignition map sorted out but it is now working like a charm. Del Me too, once I removed the worn out dizzy it starts and runs perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Del Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, missingsid said: Me too, once I removed the worn out dizzy it starts and runs perfectly. I had fitted a new distributor abut a year prior to the Megajolt installation but it still made a significant difference. Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 On 1/16/2021 at 6:49 PM, Don Del said: I have attached a couple of photos of the oil filter cartridge mounting which looks to be the pre suffix B straight gear type:- Yes. Definitely the earlier gear driven pump, you you need a long nose camshaft. As others have said, a 3.9 Efi cam works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Del Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 2 hours ago, smallfry said: Yes. Definitely the earlier gear driven pump, you you need a long nose camshaft. As others have said, a 3.9 Efi cam works well. Thank you for that confirmation. As far as the camshaft goes I have decided to go with a Piper 270 from RPi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Looking the the choices there wouldn't a Piper Torquemax possibly be a better choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 14 minutes ago, missingsid said: Looking the the choices there wouldn't a Piper Torquemax possibly be a better choice. Stump puller cam for the win - also you can buy direct from piper and cut RPi out of it. This is what I run in the 109 (and I love it) - the cam is short-nose but they sell the same spec in long-nose: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Well either I am being dumb, but the Piper website is very short on products and has no names as Torquemax or Stump puller. Are these RPi made up names? It is possible that they are custom profiles that RPi ordered? TBH I could not see your cam either as there are only 2 cams listed? 270B Fast road and 285B Rally. The only Stump Puller cam I can find is the Viper Stump Puller from Real Steel (a great company near West London). I could find no info on who Viper is though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 No idea, long time since I bought it - Piper didn't list it, I just phoned them up and said "I want all the torques in a short-nose cam for the 4.6 please" and that's what they sent to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Ah so they are better phoned than online. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Yeah, it's irritating in this day & age that their website doesn't give a comprehensive list, but a 5 minute conversation with a dude who really knows cams is a good 2nd place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Del Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 hours ago, missingsid said: Looking the the choices there wouldn't a Piper Torquemax possibly be a better choice. For my off road needs the standard cam provides adequate performance. Where it lets me down is on the tarmac. As you can appreciate in the part of the world where I live you can spend a lot of time either going up or down hills with a change in elevation of 7,000 ft. in a 60 mile drive not being uncommon. The most common gradients I encounter at altitude just prevents being able to hold third gear at around 35-40 mph. This results in a lot of the time being spent thrashing the truck in second followed by a brief spell in third before having to change back to second. The cause of the problem is the drop off in power with altitude due to the reduction in the oxygen in the air, in La Paz there is only around 65% of the amount at sea level. For that reason I picked the 270 to, hopefully, get a bit more power in the 2,500-3,500 rpm range. Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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