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17 hours ago, monkie said:

This truly is a horrific story. I hope that even if just one person reading it goes and rechecks their vehicle and corrects something then atleast some good can come from this. 

Stereotypes aside though - this ⬆️ Is what it’s about.

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I remember hearing about this story when it broke. Sad for the family but the CPS would really only go after easy cases. 

There are many things we don't know like what were all the defects and how they would have contributed to the accident. Eg if 20 bulbs are blown you have 20 defects non of which would likely have impacted on the wheel falling off. We also don't know the extent to which the vehicle had been modified, when it was done and how competent the conversion was.

We are very lucky in that most of us know our vehicles inside out and know how best to keep them maintained even to a basic standard. We regularly discuss modifications and speciality builds and while I have never created and extreme Land Rover I have set a Discovery up for my own specific needs. I consider myself reasonably competent however I did make one mistake that I didn't consider properly (Front tow bar mounting) and while it did not affect the safety of the vehicle it did result in consequential damage to the chassis.

My point is that even those of us who understand our vehicles can make mistakes which means that those with little or no experience in this should not be allowed heavily modified vehicles without some form of test.

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9 minutes ago, Romahomepete said:

I am struggling to work out how you could drive it without one of the front wheel bearings and if you could how you wouldnt know that anything is wrong

Young lad buys MOT-exempt wreck for cheap off-road thrills, gives no f*** about the odd noises etc. as it's just an old heap...  just one theory.

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When I bought my 110 some time ago now, it had 11 months MOT left on it. I got the train down to Camborne in Cornwall to drive it home to Somerset. On my home... the tail pipe fell off (somewhere never to be seen again on the A30 near Truro), I had a near death experience on a tight bend between Exeter and Honniton as it took the corner like a Kwiksave shopping trolley (those who know that part of the A30 will know what sharp right hand bend I mean), some of the rear lights didn't work. It wouldn't go up hills unless it was in 3rd gear (not an MOT issue but showed the lack of attention to details by the previous owner)

I took it the next day to get a proper MOT at a trusted garage. It failed on lights not working, steering damper ineffective, front springs corroded and missing tail pipe. I'm sure it had a few advisories as well. I got them rectified immediately to get a pass. In hind sight I should have contacted VOSA about the place who issued the previous MOT just 6 weeks earlier who gave a certificate to my 110.

I know that my 110 is safe and I don't wait for an annual MOT to check the condition of safety critical items.

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55 minutes ago, Romahomepete said:

I am struggling to work out how you could drive it without one of the front wheel bearings and if you could how you wouldnt know that anything is wrong

 

Peter

I thought this, but surely it must have come off when the wheel detached and disappeared in grass/down drain, not to be found at the time.

Also, the retaining nut and lock washer would not be able to be used, and surely the wheel would have sat an an "interesting" angle. 

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On 1/25/2021 at 8:13 PM, Anderzander said:

This may make me a snob: but this makes me think of people I see out in Defenders, who wave at me, from heavily modified 90’s, with endless accessories, but that look knackered  - and I end up thinking I’m not sure I want to wave back.

It feels like half of them should be spending their money on making their vehicles roadworthy, they look like people who’s primary thing is enjoy churning up mud or looking like mad max,  rather than laning or land rovers - and I end up thinking ‘I don’t think I have anything in common with you?’.

Like the idiots seen in recent floods videos going back and forth time and time again through deep fords, mostly in modified Discoverys belching black smoke, and the yobs in the comments section with the “no smoke no poke” mantra.🤬

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On 1/25/2021 at 9:19 PM, FridgeFreezer said:

When I see a story like this is makes me feel better about having spent an excessive amount of time & money on doing & re-doing parts of the 109 like the brakes & steering to make them as good as they can be despite the fact it's all very modified. I always try to imagine a VOSA accident investigator grilling me about it and whether I'd be able to put my hand on my heart and say it was all up to scratch.

A lot of folks seem to just go with whatever they can get away with, which works until something goes wrong.

@Anderzander I know what you mean, there's definitely different "tribes" in the tent and some of them have an attitude/approach I don't particularly agree with.

Most commonly spotted these days driving a crusty D1 or D2 with no silencer, blowing clouds of diesel smoke around, and a load of eBay accessories + cheap lift kit bolted on despite the fact it would clearly struggle to pass an MOT.

 

Likewise.  Mine is not as heavily modified, but each change was heavily researched and considered, with an engineering inspection on completion, and all within the VOSA rules.  Life is too short to waste it in court or prison, or worse, to cut a life or your own shorter through shoddy work.

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14 minutes ago, smallfry said:

I thought this, but surely it must have come off when the wheel detached and disappeared in grass/down drain, not to be found at the time.

Also, the retaining nut and lock washer would not be able to be used, and surely the wheel would have sat an an "interesting" angle. 

It does seem most likely as I agree with you and gives the benefit of doubt.

TBH I drove my S1 at motorway speeds not long after purchase and thought that things did not feel quite right at the back, when I pulled up a rear wheel only had 3 studs left one of which was only half done up. I had checked the wheels before leaving!

Another time after leaving Slab Common, I saw a LR wheel floating in a pond, around the bend was a very tidy Lightweight on three wheels.

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I hope it’s bad reporting by the paper, with incorrect details or items quoted out of context, because if the police special examiner report said there was a missing wheel bearing but also said the wheel came off because of a snapped shaft, then the police aren’t competent to be doing the job.  Frankly, I have very little faith in the competence of news journalists, so I think the fault probably lays there, but who knows?

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Is it the case that a snapped front shaft could allow the wheel to come off, otherwise would the UJ prevent it from pulling through the swivel/hub? Long time since I've delved into a standard Series hub...

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23 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Is it the case that a snapped front shaft could allow the wheel to come off, otherwise would the UJ prevent it from pulling through the swivel/hub? Long time since I've delved into a standard Series hub...

Only if they mean a stub axle?

It is difficult to know without pics or more info.

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2 hours ago, Snagger said:

I hope it’s bad reporting by the paper, with incorrect details or items quoted out of context, because if the police special examiner report said there was a missing wheel bearing but also said the wheel came off because of a snapped shaft, then the police aren’t competent to be doing the job.  Frankly, I have very little faith in the competence of news journalists, so I think the fault probably lays there, but who knows?

Must surely be a snapped stub axle, for whatever reason ? 

I must confess that I don't have complete confidence in the Police ? examiners competency, but on the other hand, I doubt very much if the Journos had sight of the actual report in any case.

As for journos, you only have to see the poor gramer and spilling in sum artikles. At least use a spell checker ?

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3 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Is it the case that a snapped front shaft could allow the wheel to come off, otherwise would the UJ prevent it from pulling through the swivel/hub? Long time since I've delved into a standard Series hub...

He wasn't driving a series, it was a Disco1. A bit more info here: https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/amelia-wood-inquest-drivers-tears-4903460

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Jeebus:

Quote

Previous owner of the Land Rover Discovery, Adam Askew, who is a fully-qualified mechanic, said had carried out work to the vehicle before Christmas so he could go off-road driving.

He told the inquest: "It’s a well-specced vehicle. Not for day to day driving. It had a wobble on the suspension. It is a common problem with Land Rovers that have been lifted up. It is called the death wobble. Over 40mph it wobbles. It is a common Land Rover issue.”

 

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10 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Jeebus:

 

Stuff like that drives me up the wall.... They don't all do it... same with the people that say they all leak. They only wobble or leak if something is wrong :angry:. Then when stuff like this happens its means we get closer and closer to ending up like Germany or Spain with their rules on modifying. 

Also, until Liam's link I'd not realised it was 'that' case... I'm sure COVID has had something to do with it but it must be so horribly painful to wait so long from the incident for things to be sorted. 

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So his entire defence is that it was caused by a suspension lift made worse by off-roading!

So  he's happy to get a blanket ban on lifted/modded/off-roading rather than admit he knew there was a problem with the handling/speed but did nothing to mitigate it?

Yes there are design limitations that affect the handling but sticking oversize heavy tyres on it isn't going to help any nor is blaming the manufacturer for not building a vehicle that does not work as well after it has been altered.

 

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On 1/24/2021 at 4:13 PM, Anderzander said:

This may make me a snob: but this makes me think of people I see out in Defenders, who wave at me, from heavily modified 90’s, with endless accessories, but that look knackered  - and I end up thinking I’m not sure I want to wave back.

It feels like half of them should be spending their money on making their vehicles roadworthy, they look like people who’s primary thing is enjoy churning up mud or looking like mad max,  rather than laning or land rovers - and I end up thinking ‘I don’t think I have anything in common with you?’.

Hope you wave at me?

Anyway, if the car had disc brakes, the hub is contained by the caliper, so almost impossible to come off, unless the wheel nuts came undone. Or is it the incident that caused this thread?:

 

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I'm still struggling to understand how the wheel came off if the stub axle is still attached. Surely that's either loose wheel nuts or the stake nut coming loose or maybe both.

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It's hard to be sure from the poor photo but it looks to me like the stub axle is still attached and the hub is missing. If the outer bearing was absent then the only thing holding the hub in place would be the brake disc in the caliper. I'm guessing the brake disc eventually gave up, the hub drifted off the end of the stub axle and then the half shaft snapped when it was loaded with the weight of the vehicle? 

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Could the missing outer wheel bearing put so much stress on the stub axle that it would snap and the whole lot come of?

With no outer bearing the hub must have had a ton of movement in it.

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I can't get my head round anyone not installing the outer bearing. It seems almost too far fetched to be true in some ways. What would you tighten the stake nut onto? Wouldn't the brake disc just collapse into the caliper as @LiamC says above? Surely it would bind me pull violently left as soon as you got moving.

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It's pointless debating what happened based on a newspaper reporters possibly incorrect interpretation of what was said in court.

Until anyone sees the vehicle examiners report it's just speculation.

I'd also add, police "expert" examiners are not always as expert as you'd think.

Wasn't that other fatality involving a poorly maintained Land Rover in Lincs?

There were some defects reported in that one that didn't make sense as I recall.

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