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12 minutes ago, Jon W said:

Out of interest why is the bleed hole a reduced diameter? What does this help with? When I did my V8 conversion in my series  I ran without this for a while until the radiator was modified, think it ran cooler once fitted. 

 

Thanks on the HD core. And yes most all vehicles motor and commercial stack coolers. It’s a packaging thing but works , LR went to it 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

the bleed hole allows water to bypass not going through the cooling process of the radiator. If you reduce it down so the flow is more restrictive than going through the radiator, that’s the path coolant will take. 

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Back in, because the general information is really interesting.

Just an idea to test whether a bigger rad could be a solution: Why not spray the rad with water (water/methanol), when the system is hot? Easy to realize with the windshield pump, bottle and a separate switch. Since more energy will be transported from the rad it will be a sign, that a bigger rad will do the work. Otherwise there will be another reason for getting to hot. Just an idea.

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Two things to ask. 

Why is it that the 300Tdi isn't fitted with either a proper radiator like the series or a proper crossflow like the 200Tdi

The viscous fan can and does at certain fan speeds stop the airflow through the radiator

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Given the age of the vehicle and that it sounds as if the rad and intercooler have been out a few times, have the foam seals between them and the mounting frame and between each other been replaced, and is the fan shroud installed?  If the seals or any baffles are missing, the airflow through the cores will be reduced as it’ll pass through the gaps, and if the shroud is missing, the fan will be almost completely ineffective, recirculating air in a torus behind the rad rather than drawing air through it.

 

I still think that cheap TGV oil cooler system is a part of the problem, though.

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27 minutes ago, Snagger said:

Given the age of the vehicle and that it sounds as if the rad and intercooler have been out a few times, have the foam seals between them and the mounting frame and between each other been replaced, and is the fan shroud installed?  If the seals or any baffles are missing, the airflow through the cores will be reduced as it’ll pass through the gaps, and if the shroud is missing, the fan will be almost completely ineffective, recirculating air in a torus behind the rad rather than drawing air through it.

 

I still think that cheap TGV oil cooler system is a part of the problem, though.

Youve completle missed my point. The 300Tdi radiator is NOT a crossflw even when new.

 

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8 minutes ago, mmgemini said:

Youve completle missed my point. The 300Tdi radiator is NOT a crossflw even when new.

 

This is a good idea, crossflowing the rad and utilising the whole length in flow is a much better design. 

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56 minutes ago, reb78 said:

So can you fit a 200tdi rad to a 300tdi and achieve that ^^^ I think you would have to adapt the top hose?

Well at one time I did get a 200Tdi rad for my 300Tdi but gave up. I thought about using the bottom hose and changeing that.

The easiest answer is an African mod to the radiator

 

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8 hours ago, mmgemini said:

Two things to ask. 

Why is it that the 300Tdi isn't fitted with either a proper radiator like the series or a proper crossflow like the 200Tdi

The viscous fan can and does at certain fan speeds stop the airflow through the radiator

Can you explain the difference between the two, and do you know the speeds and why that happens re the fan?

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4 hours ago, Snagger said:

Given the age of the vehicle and that it sounds as if the rad and intercooler have been out a few times, have the foam seals between them and the mounting frame and between each other been replaced, and is the fan shroud installed?  If the seals or any baffles are missing, the airflow through the cores will be reduced as it’ll pass through the gaps, and if the shroud is missing, the fan will be almost completely ineffective, recirculating air in a torus behind the rad rather than drawing air through it.

 

I still think that cheap TGV oil cooler system is a part of the problem, though.

Always use the shroud.

 

You keep referring to the Tgv oil cooler as cheap, implying less efficient, poor design etc. Can you explain how it’s cheaper to manufacture and how it is less efficient that the 300Tdi set up?

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1 hour ago, mmgemini said:

Well at one time I did get a 200Tdi rad for my 300Tdi but gave up. I thought about using the bottom hose and changeing that.

The easiest answer is an African mod to the radiator

 

African Mod? What is that?

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17 hours ago, mmgemini said:

Youve completle missed my point. The 300Tdi radiator is NOT a crossflw even when new.

 

I wasn’t replying to you, Mike.

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13 hours ago, uninformed said:

Always use the shroud.

 

You keep referring to the Tgv oil cooler as cheap, implying less efficient, poor design etc. Can you explain how it’s cheaper to manufacture and how it is less efficient that the 300Tdi set up?

It is a unit that doesn’t require as much plumbing and doesn’t need such an expensive radiator with internal oil cooler, so the likelihood is that the new unit was made that way to either reduce total installation costs or to ensure that the unit wasn’t installed in a vehicle that was previously normally aspirated and no oil additional cooler was installed.  I very much doubt the new oil cooler has the capacity of the Tdi type, or better still, the transmission oil cooler I suggested.  Unfortunately, in all forms of engineering, a lot of changes in approach are for cost engineering, not to improve system performance.

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I'm genuinely curious about this radiator modification, I'm not familiar with the 300TDi rad and I'm not getting where this baffle is and how the mod works?

 

 

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21 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I'm genuinely curious about this radiator modification, I'm not familiar with the 300TDi rad and I'm not getting where this baffle is and how the mod works?

 

 

In the left hand end tank, there is a divider plate half way up. Water enters left end tank, fills, hits divider plate, travels sideways to right end tank, drops down to lower half, moves sideways back to left end. There is a hole in the plate about 15mm dia, water will pass through it easier than going through the core, bypassing the cooling process. Terrible for hot climates, thats why we plate them but still leave 3mm for bleeding.

 

Known as a dual pass radiator.

 

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49 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I'm genuinely curious about this radiator modification, I'm not familiar with the 300TDi rad and I'm not getting where this baffle is and how the mod works?

 

 

The left tank, about one third up fit a plate to block the tank but with a 3mm bleed hole. This mod stops the water going from the bottom hose to the top hose making the water go through the matrix

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1 hour ago, Snagger said:

It is a unit that doesn’t require as much plumbing and doesn’t need such an expensive radiator with internal oil cooler, so the likelihood is that the new unit was made that way to either reduce total installation costs or to ensure that the unit wasn’t installed in a vehicle that was previously normally aspirated and no oil additional cooler was installed.  I very much doubt the new oil cooler has the capacity of the Tdi type, or better still, the transmission oil cooler I suggested.  Unfortunately, in all forms of engineering, a lot of changes in approach are for cost engineering, not to improve system performance.

I would say that’s an optimistic view point lol.

 

That complex radiator is one pipe down the right end tank.
 

Small radiator, hottest water enters, travels across only half height, half cooled, hits oil pipe, gets heated again and then travels half height across again...

 

block cooler, hottest water enters radiator, gets full cooling, enters block, coolest part of engine and goes through oil cooler.

I guess we will just disagree on that one.

cost cutting by accountants, yep, and plenty of it over the LR years.

 

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It is a simple pipe in the rad tank, but it’s surface area and flow restrictions are likely to eat lot less than the one on the 2.8, and in the case of the 200Tdi rad, immersed in fully cooled water.  The 300 rad is different,  I don’t know why LR did that.

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33 minutes ago, mmgemini said:

The left tank, about one third up fit a plate to block the tank but with a 3mm bleed hole. This mod stops the water going from the bottom hose to the top hose making the water go through the matrix

Ah, having googled 300TDi rads it's clear now - the thread someone linked about it had a standard crossflow rad pictured which obviously would be a weird thing to put a divider plate in.

My 109 has a dual-pass radiator with very open core / low FPI and that cools the 4.6 without issue, although I've not driven it in the desert.

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26 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Ah, having googled 300TDi rads it's clear now - the thread someone linked about it had a standard crossflow rad pictured which obviously would be a weird thing to put a divider plate in.

My 109 has a dual-pass radiator with very open core / low FPI and that cools the 4.6 without issue, although I've not driven it in the desert.

My 300Tdi is standard ? I run an electric fan. I had no problems in southern Africa even with a seed net fitted. Aparently not every 300Tdi needs the African mod though some rads require two baffle plates fitted to that left hand tank

 

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40 minutes ago, Snagger said:

It is a simple pipe in the rad tank, but it’s surface area and flow restrictions are likely to eat lot less than the one on the 2.8, and in the case of the 200Tdi rad, immersed in fully cooled water.  The 300 rad is different,  I don’t know why LR did that.

COST

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On 1/28/2021 at 3:52 PM, mmgemini said:

COST

It’s the same size rad with the same core, same oil cooler and same header tanks, just with the cold outlet moved to the same header as the hot inlet and a baffle plate in that header.  Seems slightly more expensive to me.  A mechanic friend told me it was to have the oil cooler in semi-cooled coolant to help warm the oil quicker, but that doesn’t quite make sense to me.  I assumed it was just an ease of engine bay plumbing issue.

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3 hours ago, Snagger said:

It’s the same size rad with the same core, same oil cooler and same header tanks, just with the cold outlet moved to the same header as the hot inlet and a baffle plate in that header.  Seems slightly more expensive to me.  A mechanic friend told me it was to have the oil cooler in semi-cooled coolant to help warm the oil quicker, but that doesn’t quite make sense to me.  I assumed it was just an ease of engine bay plumbing issue.

The 300Tdi radiator is very different to a 200Tdi one. The 200Tdi radiator maybe the same sise. Have the oil? water hear exchanger tank fitted but both are very different.

The 300Tdi radiator is not a crossflow radiator, the 200Tdi radiator is.

The coolant in a 300Tdi radiator enters the radiator at the bottom of the left hand tank, then goes straight up that tank to the outlet. Nowhere is it in anyay pushed by coolant pressured into the matrix.

The 200Tdi on the other hand is a crossflow radiatot, The coolant enters the bottom of the right hand tank and must pass through the matrix to the exit at the top of the left hand tank. A proper crossflow.

Also the pipeing for the oil coolant in that right hand tank also helps the coolant through the matrix

The other thing I was taught about cooling, Was to have as much coolant as possible above the enging/ radiator. No Tdi has that. The header tank is lower than the thermostat housing

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