Mig Welder Spares

[Bigj66]

I have this Cebora Stag 186 Mig welder of unknown vintage. It came to me free but needs some parts replacing.

From what I can see it needs a new gun or at least the end bits where the wire comes out, a new gauge and regulator, a reel of wire and a bottle of gas.

Are these items all generic or specific to the model of welder? 

Can I test the welder to check it’s working without having these items attached? I don’t want to buy new parts only to find out something is wrong with the gubbins.

What size bottle do I need and what gas?

What size wire for my bespoke fabrication 🙈 and up to 5mm steel?

Anything I’ve overlooked?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bowie69]

Regulators are standard, get one with a flow meter.

Looks like a euro torch, so essentially standard, any welding shop will know what you need, which bit needs replacing? Anything broken? Or is it just the push on nozzle?

For the wire, just cut it off inside the machine and unravel it until you see clean copper right across the reel, and it will be fine, then pull the remaining wire out from the torch end, and feed clean stuff in.

For testing, by all means run it without gas, it won't weld properly of course, but will tell you if wire feed and electricity is all ok.

As for gas, I seem to be a bit  of a heathen and still run BOC on rental, as round here most places want a mahoosive deposit on a rent free bottle, or the return you get on the bottle goes down with how long you had it, on a scary scale. It's not cheap, but I am close to the BOC dealer, and they're a local company, so all good

so, as a summary, sort the wire out, test it, then get yourself down a welding suppliers when you can, or maybe ring your local one up and see if they deliver, if you are not wishing to go anywhere....

 

 

[FridgeFreezer]

Nice!

Looks like a generic Euro torch and standard regulator, any welding shop will have those. Mind, you might just need a new tip for the torch.

[Stellaghost]

Every thing you have said needs replacing is not Cebora specific, .8mm wire will be fine and check what your local gas suppliers have with regards to gas something like argoshield heavy will do also its cheap enought to replace the whole lead yours is a euro torch connection regards Stephen

[Bigj66]

Ok cheers gents, I’ll have a look online and see if I can find a parts supplier.

What type of gas is it?

Sorry, Argoshield Heavy? Is that a make or type?

Scrap that, found it 👍 

[Bowie69]

Argoshield light is ok up to 5mm, it is a BOC product name, but most suppliers make an equivalent.

As above, .8mm wire is fine.

[Bigj66]

This ok?

https://www.boconline.co.uk/shop/en/uk/gas/welding-gas/argoshield-light-cylinder

If I’ve read it correctly then I’d need to add monthly rental of a cylinder to this price?

[Bigj66]

Just to check I’m looking at the correct items.

Gauge

https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/argon-regulator/

Torch if I need one

https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/rtech-mb25ak-4m-mig-torch/

 

[Bowie69]

Yep, I pay annually, bit cheaper.

 

[FridgeFreezer]

BOC demand rental, they do a "hobby" package that's annual rather than monthly but they always feel expensive. There's a lot of suppliers now ( @landroversforever has a thread on gas suppliers going) who do "rent free" bottles - you pay a deposit and then pay per refill. Argon/CO2 mix is what you want, as others have said there's BOC Argoshield Light (fine for anything you're likely to do) and heavy, and everyone else has their own take on the same thing.

You probably want an Argon/CO2 regulator as they do differ with gas flavour, ideally with a little flow meter on it. Pure argon regulators would be for pure argon (for TIG). EDIT: R-tech says that reg is for both, carry on...

0.8mm wire is less prone to jam up / birds nest than 0.6 and 0.8 or even 1mm is fine for most stuff on a Land Rover. Just check what your feed rollers are for, they often have it stamped on them, some have 2 grooves, commonly 0.6 and 0.8, and can be flipped round to suit.

[Bigj66]

The torch itself looks ok but I think the tip and the shroud over it have seen better days. Is the tip hole supposed to be the same size as the wire that’s on the reel or is it one size fits all?

The earth clamp is also a bit battered but it bolts to the cable so hopefully I can just buy a replacement.

[Bigj66]

And is this what you mean when you say a regulator with flow meter?

[Blanco]

Yes, tips are specific to the wire size, 0.8 wire = 0.8 tips, and yes flow meter can either be an analogue guage (some regs have double guages) or the pea style, I like the pea style.

[Bigj66]

So these twin gauge ones do the same thing?

[Bowie69]

Here's something to know, when welding with MIG, you want to know the gas flow to ensure you get the right amount, too little, and you get oxidation in the weld (very bad) too much and the weld cools off prematurely. The ones with a little ball in them show you the flow in litres/min, 12-14 is around what you want for most MIGing.

Something from RTech for you to read:

https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/mig-welding-by-expert-mike-gadsby#:~:text=What is the gas-flow,(too higher flow rate).

You can fit a flow meter to most regulators:

https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/argon-flow-meter/

The video on there shows you how it fits to a reg.

Tips and shrouds are cheap, get some stock in, and yes the tip needs to match the wire. What you have will likely work for quite a while yet.

 

 

 

[daveturnbull]

That looks like a nice welder, especially for free.

First thing I would do is plug it in and see if it makes and arc from the tip to the earth clamp. Just a quick touch to prove the whizzy bits are firing the electricity out properly.

If that's all good, clean it up and buy some new consumables. I need to invest in a proper bottle of gas soon, and have been looking at Hobbyweld as I really don't fancy any rental charges.

[Stellaghost]

29 minutes ago, daveturnbull said:

 

First thing I would do is plug it in and see if it makes and arc from the tip to the earth clamp. Just a quick touch to prove the whizzy bits are firing the electricity out properly.

 

Good advice, I will add that Cebora machines are considered high end welders so if it doesn't fire up consider getting it repaired, my own Cebora has been fantastic for the 30 yrs I've had it all be it with a couple of repairs of late which cost me around £50 still better value than buying a new one regards Stephen

[Blanco]

1 hour ago, Bigj66 said:

So these twin gauge ones do the same thing?

In essence yes, contents guage shows the pressure remaining in the whole bottle, the flow guage the rate at which gas is passing the regulator. Be aware that different gases have different bottle threads, so you must get the one that suits the Argon CO2 mix

[Bowie69]

1 hour ago, Bigj66 said:

So these twin gauge ones do the same thing?

I'm not sure that shows flow, does it? Just pressure in the RH gauge as well, albeit lower?

[Bigj66]

Well it fired up and the fan was running albeit a tad noisy. If I pull the trigger the wire doesn’t feed out but that wire is completely shot and there’s not much left of it so it’s going to be renewed anyway.

And if I touch the wire to the earth there’s no spark

[Bigj66]

10 minutes ago, Bigj66 said:

Well it fired up and the fan was running albeit a tad noisy. If I pull the trigger the wire doesn’t feed out but that wire is completely shot and there’s not much left of it so it’s going to be renewed anyway.

And if I touch the wire to the earth there’s no spark

Could that be a problem with the torch itself or something more sinister?

[landroversforever]

35 minutes ago, Blanco said:

In essence yes, contents guage shows the pressure remaining in the whole bottle, the flow guage the rate at which gas is passing the regulator. Be aware that different gases have different bottle threads, so you must get the one that suits the Argon CO2 mix

23 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

I'm not sure that shows flow, does it? Just pressure in the RH gauge as well, albeit lower?

Bowie is right, that kind shows the output pressure and the bottle pressure. Not flow. 

[landroversforever]

1 minute ago, Bigj66 said:

Could that be a problem with the torch itself or something more sinister?

Can you hear it trying to drive the wire? could be that it's not feeding if the wire isn't clamped.

 

[Bowie69]

13 minutes ago, Bigj66 said:

And if I touch the wire to the earth there’s no spark

I am assuming you are pulling the trigger as well

If no spark, it is not the end of the world, but remove the euro torch and check the connections, if you are feeling keen, a multimeter will allow you to check the trigger is working or not, and the continuity of the big fat wire as well. If the torch checks out, then you are into the welder to investigate.

Undo this fully, and then pull the trigger, you should see the rollers turning, assuming the trigger works!

 

[landroversforever]

Worth adding that for the regulator, depending on gas suppliers, that some come with the regulator and flow meter built into the top of the bottle. Regulators usually have about a 5 year life before they need binning and replacing (the diaphragm inside perishes), unless you're buying extremely expensive all-metal ones. 

Have a look at my thread here on gas and see what's available near you, or who can deliver. Also watch when comparing the fill pressure vs bottle size. Some of the rent-free cylinders have a really low ~140bar fill pressure so whilst they look cheaper than others you're getting less gas. Litres x fill pressure (Bar) = Bar/L of gas, its the easiest method for comparing actual gas volume.