andy _1 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Hi I am hoping someone has experience of this topic . I was watching a YouTube video of a defender with a rear locker fantastic goes over everthing at a slow speed and you seen the other taking runs at it ect at speed , but I have a 1989 90 it has these 23/24 halfshafts with 10 spline at the diff end so here the question. Who does an air locker or electric locker that does 10 spline that around £700. I know you get 24 spline ones ie ashcroft which I would go for but it only for 24 spline axel, next question is it just a matter of changing the halfshafts and drive flanges to convert, my head says yes but I don't know and not wanting to make an expensive mistake , hence asking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Does your 90 have discs or drums on the rear? The front I think is a little more complicated but since you asked about the rear I'll focus on that. You'd only need to swap out the halfshafts, diff and drive flange if you were changing to 24 spline. Whether there's a difference in half-shaft length if you're disc or drum braked I don't know. Similarly there may be half-shafts available that are 24 spline but for drums (if you do have them)? Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 ARB do a 10 spline air locker I have them in the front and rear axles on my lightweight regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 I think they stopped making them now, Stephen Certainly, last I heard was parts were becoming very difficult to get hold of for the RD03 locker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Worth checking with Nige to see if he has any old stock or second hand items. He’s not keen on 10 spline locking diffs - he made a very informative video about the various shaft specs and how much weaker 10 spline shafts are, and why locking diffs are so much more prone to snapping them, so would likely only have second hand, which could suit that budget. Try a PM to Hybrid_from_Hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: I think they stopped making them now, Stephen Certainly, last I heard was parts were becoming very difficult to get hold of for the RD03 locker. Possibly have had mine for around 25 years 13 minutes ago, Snagger said: Worth checking with Nige to see if he has any old stock or second hand items. He’s not keen on 10 spline locking diffs - he made a very informative video about the various shaft specs and how much weaker 10 spline shafts are, and why locking diffs are so much more prone to snapping them Have to say I used mine for modified trials with fiddles and did not have many breakages at all in fact crown wheel and pinion suffered more regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: I think they stopped making them now, Stephen Certainly, last I heard was parts were becoming very difficult to get hold of for the RD03 locker. Foundry 4x4 are selling them just did a quick search think it said £ 781.74 regards Stephen Edited February 7, 2021 by Stellaghost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy _1 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Ed Poore said: Does your 90 have discs or drums on the rear? The front I think is a little more complicated but since you asked about the rear I'll focus on that. You'd only need to swap out the halfshafts, diff and drive flange if you were changing to 24 spline. Whether there's a difference in half-shaft length if you're disc or drum braked I don't know. Similarly there may be half-shafts available that are 24 spline but for drums (if you do have them)? Does that make sense? Yes I have been reading alot of posts , thank everyone that replied . I am think I need the halfshafts type from v8 or mod 90 with drums anyone know part numbers for the shafts and drive flanges? They seem to be 24 spline and the right length and about £30 each for the shafts so it would make the ashcroft locker the best choice . Just had a thought the flanges on it just now are the 23/24 spline , I have never counted them just read thats what they are so do I already have the correct drive flanges? Can't see it being 23 or 24 its got to be one or the other thinking about it again dont know. Does anyone or I am getting the kids to count them , they got good eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Given the rear halfshafts are a doddle to remove would it not be simplest to pull one out, measure it and count the splines? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy _1 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Yup just counted the splines drum side is 24 so what are the shafts I need called mod 90 rear shaft or what ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 43 minutes ago, andy _1 said: Yes I have been reading alot of posts , thank everyone that replied . I am think I need the halfshafts type from v8 or mod 90 with drums anyone know part numbers for the shafts and drive flanges? They seem to be 24 spline and the right length and about £30 each for the shafts so it would make the ashcroft locker the best choice . Just had a thought the flanges on it just now are the 23/24 spline , I have never counted them just read thats what they are so do I already have the correct drive flanges? Can't see it being 23 or 24 its got to be one or the other thinking about it again dont know. Does anyone or I am getting the kids to count them , they got good eyes Defender drive flanges are as far as I'm aware all 24 spline. IMO, when you're thinking of a rear locker the extra costs of some ashcroft 24/24 spline shafts aren't much in the grand scheme of things. Sticking with the weaker 10 spline shafts is asking for trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy _1 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, landroversforever said: Defender drive flanges are as far as I'm aware all 24 spline. IMO, when you're thinking of a rear locker the extra costs of some ashcroft 24/24 spline shafts aren't much in the grand scheme of things. Sticking with the weaker 10 spline shafts is asking for trouble. Yes I am going to use 24 spline but its iding the correct shaft for drum brakes and 24 spline. I've got part no FTC4996 but unsure if that's the correct shaft for v8 90 or mod 90. It give you just from chassis no xxxxxxx ect. That's no use to me as I don't have a 24 spline rear diff chassis no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Just order the correct shafts and drive flanges from ashcroft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy _1 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) Well I found the correct part no its FRC8094 and frc8095 that alot cheeper than ashcrofts shafts £24.95 each. Thanks to everyone next convincing wife I need to spend £600 odd Edited February 7, 2021 by andy _1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Cheaper yes, same quality no. IMO I wouldn’t risk a locker with standard shafts (and I have done in the past). A shaft breaking and sending bits all round the crownwheel, pinion and the centre of the diff is a recipe to write off the diff centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy _1 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) Well I will, their shafts are nearly the price of the locker Edited February 7, 2021 by andy _1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Problem is, when you have stock shafts you can break them without a locker, add in a locker, and you can be putting all the engine torque through one half shaft by itself. This makes for many breakages, and as alluded to above, a breakage of a shaft often involves breaking something in your nice shiny diff as well. You don't have to be 'going some' at all, just get caught out once where traction is suddenly gained by a single rear wheel, and ping! Ashcroft stuff can look pricey when you browse, but factor in your 25 quid half shaft could cost you a £700 diff, and to me it is clear it is not a good decision. Remember that shaft probably cost £12 landed over here -you really think they can make a quality product for that? I guess if Ashcroft, or other aftermarket half shafts, weren't any good, they wouldn't be able to sell any, but the fact they do makes a case for their need and effectiveness. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy _1 Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) I just get an arb locker 10 spline the locker just to save me time winching myself out Edited February 8, 2021 by andy _1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 At huge amount comes does come down to driving style if you're driving sympathetically then I'm sure that standard shafts would be fine. I can't find the results or remember them 100% correctly but didn't Ashcroft's test a load of halfshafts to destruction and the standard / genuine ones actually faired pretty well. If I recall correctly they weren't anywhere near as strong as the Ashcroft ones but they deformed first before breaking and likely sending chunks into the diff. One thing to bear in mind is the likely difference between the £15 halfshafts vs. Genuine from Land Rover. The main thing you would be paying for with genuine parts over a pattern part is tracability and "warranty". The pattern parts are almost going to come from the same factory as the genuine ones but they may be all the ones that don't meet the standards set by JLR. That's not to say that they'll all be carp but you just don't have the guarantee. It's similar in the electronics industry all the chips are manufactured in the same factory. The ones that test and perform the best are sold as automotive spec and have a huge papertrail documenting everything about them, the next best become aerospace or military, the ones after that are industrial and the dregs of the barrel are sold as general consumer grade items. So just because they're built in the same factory does not necessarily mean they all end up the same spec. I'm a pretty sympathetic driver like yourself but when I had the two lockers built for mine by Nige I opted for Ashcroft shafts - not because I was expecting to break the standard ones but stuff does happen unexpectedly. That's even more likely when I get around to swapping out the 300Tdi for a 250+hp V8 so it was forward planning on that respect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, andy _1 said: I just get an arb locker 10 spline the locker just to save me time winching myself out A locker will enable you to spend waaaaay more time winching yourself out, as a locker allows you to get more stuck, waaaaay more stuck. A locker will not stop you getting stuck, that is down to the nut behind the wheel. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Bowie69 said: A locker will enable you to spend waaaaay more time winching yourself out, as a locker allows you to get more stuck, waaaaay more stuck. A locker will not stop you getting stuck, that is down to the nut behind the wheel. What Bowie says is true I run front and rear lockers great bits of kit if used correctly I also run front and rear winches if I had to lose one it would be the lockers as the winches are the only bit of kit that is virtually guaranteed to get you out regards Stephen 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RedLineMike Posted February 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Bowie69 said: A locker will enable you to spend waaaaay more time winching yourself out, as a locker allows you to get more stuck, waaaaay more stuck. A locker will not stop you getting stuck, that is down to the nut behind the wheel. this is the start of the slippery slope, before long you have jumped to 37" tyres, twin lockers, twin winches & then promptly buried it way beyond the reach of any of your mates to come & help you, did this at drumclog & i think we had 6 vehicles all stuck trying to get to me, to get mine unstuck 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 You're not trying hard enough @RedLineMike Worst I had was it took 6 vehicles (not stuck) to get me out of a hole in France. First one (Hilux) had a mechanical PTO winch, just got dragged to me. Subsequently 5 more vehicles were chained together and eventually with me reversing as well we managed to drag me out backwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy _1 Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 6 hours ago, RedLineMike said: this is the start of the slippery slope, before long you have jumped to 37" tyres, twin lockers, twin winches & then promptly buried it way beyond the reach of any of your mates to come & help you, did this at drumclog & i think we had 6 vehicles all stuck trying to get to me, to get mine unstuck You must be near me as drumclog is near me. I am laughing all yous guys are right. I was just thinking a locker would be handy to stop me getting stuck, I don't go to pay and play ect I just use it got pulling trailers ect and going on my mates farm. I get my self stuck usually in soft parks in winter ect but I would probably try to go further done to the burn ect and get myself really stuck , with a locker. I am thinking now I got bfg all terrain on the 90 and a spare that mud terrain maybe better buying another 3 mud terrain. It was that video I seen that got me thinking locker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy _1 Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 7 hours ago, Stellaghost said: What Bowie says is true I run front and rear lockers great bits of kit if used correctly I also run front and rear winches if I had to lose one it would be the lockers as the winches are the only bit of kit that is virtually guaranteed to get you out regards Stephen I think I'll take your advice I got a superwinch tigershark 9500. I was thinking that too. I usually winch myself out if stuck.i just buy 3 more bfg mud terrain . I can still get stuck with a locker so I'll listen to your advice , I think your right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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