Shock absorber question

[Badger110]

I'm looking to upgrade the shocks on the 110.

 

Fox 2 seem to be the worthy choice and pricing them up, they're within budget.

 

I have a standard height set up on a USW. 

 

If I buy new it's £600 for a full set, however JE are selling off the better adjustable range for £450 a set, however they're 2" lift version.

 

I'm not that savvy on suspension if I'm honest, but can you fit 2" lift shocks to a standard spring set, and if so, what will happen?

 

 I don't want to raise the truck with a lift, would it be possible to dial down the 2" extended shocks to a more suitable to standard height without compromising the ability of the shock?  

Am I right in thinking 2" extended lift shock will allow more travel from the unit but the ' rested ' state of the shock is down to the spring height?

 

 

[Badger110]

I've doing some digging around and it looks like this question isn't as remote as I expected.

 

Two things which have been brought up are;

 

Compressed spring happening beyond the travel of the shock and extended spring being beyond the travel of the shock.

 

First thing is, when the spring is compressed or the axle is articulated at the maximum point of it hitting the bump stop, will this be beyond the collapsed point of the shock and second point is when the articulated at the max point, does the extra travel of the shock cause the spring to dislocate.

 

Looking on fox's website, the standard Fox 2 Pro shocks are as follows;

                                Ext length            Col length               Travel  

985-24-079(R)         21.13"                   13.25"                    7.88"

985-24-078(F)         21.65"                   13.05"                   8.60"

 

Fox Pro 2" lift shocks are as follows

 

985-24-144(R).       24.03"                   14.95"                   9.08"

985-24-143(F)        23.88"                   14.30"                   9.58"

 

 

For the fronts, the collapsed length is 1.25" ( 32mm ) higher than standard and the rear is 1.7" (44.5mm) higher.   Based on this, an extension of the bump stops by those amounts or, to be safe, an amount beyond those, will stop the shock being compressed beyond it's limit.

 

How does that make the vehicle behave in situations where articulation is happening at the extremities of the axle?  The slightly longer travel of the shocks ( 1.2"/30mm front and .98"/25mm rear ) will make the non compressed side of the axle move further away by the amounts given or will it be more?   

 

Dislocation cones should stop the spring being unseated the extra 30mm & 25mm of travel length

 

Fox don't give details of the internals between the 2 shock other than one is remote and the other has internal floating pistons.  It also doesn't give the seated height of the shock ( when it's at rested) although I guess that isn't possible as an awful lot of weight information of the vehicle is needed before that figure can be worked out.

 

Dislocation cones and extended bump stops are a must then.

 

The standard shocks will be unpacked and fitted and I'll be on my merry way with no dramas to worry about, but there is that niggly feeling that will it work with a little more effort and a better shock at the end of it and the savings can be put to dislocation cones and extended bumps stops to break even...

 

The question is, how will handle?   General consensus from the past 2 hours spent reading up on it, is no real difference to a standard as long as you are prepared to set it up correctly.

 

 

[Sigi_H]

The characteristic curve of good shock absorbers is not linear. If you also take this into account, I would say that it does not fit.

[Snagger]

As a damper is compressed, more of the piston volume will be inside the cylinder, and this will increase the internal pressure.  That may have an increase in damping rate, as I think Sigi is suggesting above.  The calving in the damper hasn’t been changed, so any rate change should be relatively small.

You have already identified the main problem of excessively long dampers on an installation - that they’ll bottom out before the suspension reaches the limits of its travel.  Yes, extended or shimmed bump stops will solve that, but at the cost of articulation.  In most cases, you’ll have better articulation from standard components than having long travel dampers hobbled by extended bump stops, even if you fit dislocation cones.  The better alternative would be to alter the damper mounts so they accommodate the damper on full compression with standard bump stops, so you benefit from the extended travel without compromising articulation - you should end up with extra articulation from this, and better capability.  You just need to check the brake lines, steering rods and prop shafts aren’t over extended.

[Mo Murphy]

Badger, if you are off round the world in your 110 then fit genuine standard shocks that will be easy to find to replace.

I can't help but think that fox shocks are just expensive shinys that will eat a big chunk of budget.

Mo

[FridgeFreezer]

On 2/28/2021 at 10:16 AM, Mo Murphy said:

Badger, if you are off round the world in your 110 then fit genuine standard shocks that will be easy to find to replace.

I can't help but think that fox shocks are just expensive shinys that will eat a big chunk of budget.

^ this. Can't remember who it was but someone on here went off round the world with rufty-tufty "HD" shocks which then not only broke, but snapped the custom mount off leaving a truck which could not accept a standard-style shock or the unique after-market style.

They may be un-glamarous but stock shocks & mounts get used on all manner of heavily-laden military vehicles without issue.

[Sigi_H]

Even stock shocks can be mounted wrong. I once squezed the upper eye of a shock with new not so good fitting rubbers. The result was that the eye broke from the rod. African mechanics just welded it 👍

[Badger110]

I've not had time to look into this anymore at the moment, work tends to get in the way of these things!

 

 

[Eightpot]

Yeah if its for overlanding do get good gas shocks but keep the shocks/springs matched.  And dislocation cones are useful-ish maybe, but you wouldn't want to make a dislocated spring a part of your general suspension geometry.  I'd be much happier locking the spring to the hanger with hose clips than having a spring waggling round at the wrong moment. 

[Stellaghost]

On 3/1/2021 at 10:39 AM, FridgeFreezer said:

^ this. Can't remember who it was but someone on here went off round the world with rufty-tufty "HD" shocks which then not only broke, but snapped the custom mount off leaving a truck which could not accept a standard-style shock or the unique after-market style.

They may be un-glamarous but stock shocks & mounts get used on all manner of heavily-laden military vehicles without issue.

As above make so much more sense, your over landing not doing Icelandic 4x4 ( but I could be wrong ) on another note I have some new 110 standard shocks your more than welcome too, will post a pic later regards Stephen

Edited March 4, 2021 by Stellaghost

[Badger110]

Thats kind of you Stephen, however hold onto them for now as I bit the bullet and bought a set

 

There are some great points made and weighing up the pros and cons, it's worth doing.

 

I shall update the thread as I go along 

[Eightpot]

If you're planning on overlanding, and doing Africa/middle east/stans/Asia etc, I'd either swap to standard height shocks or match the springs - quite easy to bottom out a laden truck on bad roads, hidden speed humps, wadis and washouts and you want the impact on the bumpstops & chassis rather than the shock mounts. 

Even with matched stuff I've punched the shock mounts through on rough roads. 

If you're not overlanding or doing a different kind of trip ignore 🙂

[Snagger]

British MoD, emergency services and Camel Trophy vehicles all used LR sourced parts, not aftermarket suspension components, and when you look at what they contend with, you can see that the aftermarket “upgrades” are a very expensive vanity project.  You just don’t need any of it.  If you’re going heavily laden, then fitting the LR HD spec is worthwhile, but otherwise, the standard spec the vehicle was built with is best.  All these lifted, super HD, gas filled brightly painted items are just going to make replacement on a trip very difficult, expensive and complicated, with enormous delays for shipping of parts to remote places, where standard parts will be more easily, quickly and cheaply available and won’t need specialist tools, fasteners, brackets or bushes to fit.

[Badger110]

After several emails and chats with others who have this kit, we narrowed it down with the help from Gwyn Lewis, to a set up identical to his 3" lift which uses standard or 1" spring increase.

 

List of parts are as follows to get these to fit;

 

For the front ( puma model 110 ) 

GL1056 Pair Front STD Height H/Duty Turrets (inc Relocator) GALV  
GL1053 Pair Turret Securing Rings H/Duty  
GL1054 Pair Front Spring Retainers  
GL1057B-2 Pair Front Extended Bump Stops BLACK  
Pair of Puma front brake hoses 

For the rear ( puma model 110 ) 

GL1065 Pair Rear Springs re locators Chall 110/130  
GL1182 Pair Rear Spring Retainers HD Round 110/130 
GL1057B-2 Pair Rear Extended Bump Stops BLACK 
NRC4317-2 Pair Rear Spring Seats Galv 110/130 

 

Gwyn also said you can fit the cranked trailing arms, but without a modification mount, the rear anti roll bar will have to be removed.  I noticed Safari Equip for their extended 120 litre main tank do a relocation kit for the anti roll bar which drops it down...under normal circumstances with a standard tank, this should allow more articulation without causing it to flip over.

 

That kinda clears up the original question as to what is needed/can it be done scenario for fitting 2" extended shocks with standard springs.

 

It's all moot for me now as I bought a set of standard height OME shocks but it may help someone else asking the same question

[landroversforever]

Gwyn's stuff is great. I ran his shock mounts on the 90 front and rear. All good with standard springs and the '+5' OME shocks  

[landroversforever]

Also, thinking of the rear ARB.... have a look at the X-eng one. Stiffer than stock locked, and then unlocks for full travel potential.

[Badger110]

I might look at that X-eng one for my set up as my weight is getting a tad top heavy, nothing major or over balanced, but every bit helps

[FridgeFreezer]

33 minutes ago, Badger110 said:

I might look at that X-eng one for my set up as my weight is getting a tad top heavy, nothing major or over balanced, but every bit helps

Just to say - stiffening the suspension doesn't change your CoG, sure it cuts body roll a bit but if you push it you'll just lift a wheel sooner.

[Badger110]

It was one of the deciding factor before I knew of the X eng kit as I didn't want to remove the ARB due to experiencing more body roll.

 

That and a set of OME's coming up too good to miss