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How safe to drive with layshaft bearings on their way out?


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I have had to travel this evening for work next week - a 250 mile trip. I am away all week.

About 100 miles into my journey the D2 (TD5 manual/R380) started making a fairly bad noise. Rotational knocking probably best describes it. Changed out of 5th gear and it went away. Quiet as a mouse in 4th, 1st-3rd were fine too. This leads me to think the layshaft bearings are pretty bad as it is only in 5th gear. It is on about 160k so its done ok to be fair.

With not much choice this evening, I did the last 150 miles of this journey in 4th gear running at about 60mph. On Friday I need to make the return journey. What's the likelihood the layshaft bearings will hold up if I don't use 5th and go no higher than 4th gear on a 250 mile run?

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Check reverse gear is still available, I lots 5th & reverse a few years ago due to failed layshsft bearings.  I had driven 200 plus miles & back without 5th & reverse, a new gearbox was needed. 

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Posted (edited)

Reverse was still there Ralph when I backed up to park a little earlier. It sounded noisy perhaps but I reversed slowly so not like 5th at 50mph - that just sounded like the box was going into self destruct. I didnt really try it again after that!

What happened when you lost those gears? Was it still driveable?

I have three cars.... all land rover.... all broken now...

Edited by reb78
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8 hours ago, reb78 said:

Reverse was still there Ralph when I backed up to park a little earlier. It sounded noisy perhaps but I reversed slowly so not like 5th at 50mph - that just sounded like the box was going into self destruct. I didnt really try it again after that!

What happened when you lost those gears? Was it still driveable?

I have three cars.... all land rover.... all broken now...

Sorry shouldn't laugh but this is why my wife insists she has an Audi/BMW for when all the Land Rovers decide they want the week off at the same time

 

Hope you get them sorted

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haha. We did the same and had a little 1 series.... but 1 series+motorway+water = aquaplany spinning and the final result was no 1 series. I replaced it with a D3... I am an idiot.

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9 hours ago, reb78 said:

Reverse was still there Ralph when I backed up to park a little earlier. It sounded noisy perhaps but I reversed slowly so not like 5th at 50mph - that just sounded like the box was going into self destruct. I didnt really try it again after that!

What happened when you lost those gears? Was it still driveable?

 

Yes still driveable in 1st,2nd,3rd & 4th, but didn't push it to much & had the box replaced as soon as I could. 

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I could hear 2nd gear knocking a bit on the short drive this morning.

4th is still silent. I am 50:50 about whether I risk driving this back from Hertfordshire to Cornwall!

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What are you worried about Rich?

Worst case gearbox goes bang and you get stranded. Best case nothing happens :rolleyes:

Not quit ethe same but I think I lost a tooth on 5th gear and did two round trips towing to Surrey with that knocking and it was fine - running a 1.2 transfer box and towing meant 60mph was bearable in 4th gear.

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1 hour ago, Retroanaconda said:

If you’ve got recovery then I’d go for it, just don’t tell them first as most won’t cover you if you set off with a known fault!

Usefull to know...

This is why I don't rely on a land rover as my daily driver.

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2 hours ago, Ed Poore said:

What are you worried about Rich?

Worst case gearbox goes bang and you get stranded. Best case nothing happens :rolleyes:

Not quit ethe same but I think I lost a tooth on 5th gear and did two round trips towing to Surrey with that knocking and it was fine - running a 1.2 transfer box and towing meant 60mph was bearable in 4th gear.

I guess my worry is, if the layshaft bearing actually collapses will the box jam? I cant imagine a box locking up on the motorway would leave me with a vehicle that is that easy to control!?

Plus I suppose I didnt want to sit in a recovery truck during COVID times!

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23 minutes ago, reb78 said:

I cant imagine a box locking up on the motorway would leave me with a vehicle that is that easy to control!?

Clutch pedal in. Transfer box lever into neutral. Coast to safety. I doubt it'll go from slightly grinding to fully locked up either.

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Mine didn't lock up. layshaft is at bottom of the gear cluster so if the bearings did fail the shaft should drop out of mesh with the other gears. I drove to & from Chesterfield area with no 5th or reverse gears, just be wary where & how you park, a 110 is heavy to push on your own.

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One gear, 4th in a 4 speed, does not use the layshaft at all. I is a direct drive 1:1 ratio which only uses the mainshaft. I have driven two Series 1 V8s with snapped layshafts in 4th gear only though NOT 250 miles is has to be said!

In a 5 speed 5th is an overdrive gear so that is why 4th gear is quiet. If you can drive 90% of the time in 4th then the layshaft is doing nothing hence the silence and IMO no load on the layshaft bearings.

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I'm insured with NFU, when Van broke last summer due to COVID they've upgraded the recovery package to the premium one. Van got shipped away and a Taxi came and picked us up. Pretty straight forward.

But I would say go for it but take it easy, I've seen trucks in all sorts of condition due to generally owner neglect! running and getting there owners from A to B, you're aware of it so take your time maybe avoid the motorways :) 

In the summer I quite enjoy taking an alternative route from Falmouth back home in the 90.

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4 hours ago, missingsid said:

One gear, 4th in a 4 speed, does not use the layshaft at all. I is a direct drive 1:1 ratio which only uses the mainshaft. I have driven two Series 1 V8s with snapped layshafts in 4th gear only though NOT 250 miles is has to be said!

In a 5 speed 5th is an overdrive gear so that is why 4th gear is quiet. If you can drive 90% of the time in 4th then the layshaft is doing nothing hence the silence and IMO no load on the layshaft bearings.

Indeed, in the R380 4th is in essence a dog clutch between the input and output shaft and doesn't use the layshaft. Little or no stress on any bearings, just a rotation going through the entire gearbox to the transferbox.

Start of gently, get it in 4th as soon as possible and stay there, you'll be fine!

Filip

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Posted (edited)

The layshaft does spin the whole time though doesnt it? I thought it was permanently meshed even if the drive isnt passing through it? 

I am leaning towards chancing it now though! 

M25/M3/A303 (roundabouts!)/A30/M5/A30..... or M25/M4/M5/A30... (no roundabouts but harder if I do breakdown!)?

Edited by reb78
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I'd stick to motorways where possible and potter along in 4th if you feel so inclined.

If you're on a motorway and break down you're more of a priority than if you're on another class of road too.

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23 minutes ago, reb78 said:

Made it!

Set out at 10, arrived just after 3. 

Now to decide if this disco is worth fixing. 

Good to hear you got back okay. I bet that was an anxious journey playing breakdown bingo :D

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1 hour ago, monkie said:

Good to hear you got back okay. I bet that was an anxious journey playing breakdown bingo :D

It certainly made me think about how bad 'Smart' motorways are if you do have a sudden failure and cant roll to a layby!

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Smart motorways are a nightmare with those emergency bays..I got stuck in one for 25 minutes as I couldn't pull out with a caravan on the back and get upto speed quick enough to safely join the traffic.

 

I heard they block the inside lane if someone is in the bay to allow you to leave but I must've been unlucky.

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On 3/19/2021 at 5:51 PM, reb78 said:

It certainly made me think about how bad 'Smart' motorways are if you do have a sudden failure and cant roll to a layby!

You were driving a Land Rover go for the grass, 🙄

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