Creating a wooden load space on a 110

[Filbee]

2 hours ago, landroversforever said:

You’ve not got them tied into the chassis directly?!  

Nope. They're bolted through the floor of the rear tub just as they would in a minibus, camper etc. The fitting instructions tell you to bolt through the floor and use spreader plates/washers. They don't suggest the rails need to be bolted to the chassis of the vehicle you are fitting them to. Do you think they should be?

I'm pretty confident the only way the seats will come adrift is if the whole floor of the rear tub became detached. 

[Bowie69]

Probably OK, but as an example, RRCs have an eye bolt that goes down from the boot floor to the chassis to reinforce the seat belt mount, even on the steel floored later vehicles. 

I'd look again and consider what could be done simply

[Mo Murphy]

They don't need to go to the chassis, the standard luggage eyes only go through the tub.

Shakes head in disbelief. 

Mo

[Bowie69]

4 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

They don't need to go to the chassis, the standard luggage eyes only go through the tub.

Shakes head in disbelief. 

Mo

Hey Mo, for the OP I would agree, but for the seats fitted above I would understandably be more cautious

[Ed Poore]

12 hours ago, landroversforever said:

You’ve not got them tied into the chassis directly?!  

Depends on how the seat belts are mounted - if you think about the front seats in a standard Defender then they're just bolted to a piece of aluminium with a piddly spreader plate. In the event of a crash then the belt is what's holding you in and that is tied into the chassis.

If the seatbelts are integrated into the seat then they'd need some suitable anchorage. If I'm remembering correctly from when I looked into it when I built my rear seat framework then according to the SVA / MOT manuals suitable spreader plates behind suitable panels are OK for seatbelt mounts but don't quote me on that. Ideally yes they would be tied into something structural but given most vehicles don't have a chassis anymore...

[Mo Murphy]

4 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

Hey Mo, for the OP I would agree, but for the seats fitted above I would understandably be more cautious

Ah yes, I see, seat mounting should be capable of restraining the weight of the seat, the seatbelt mounting does the job of restraining the person.

Once upon a time cargo racking was a very common way of mounting minibus and ambulance seating. It used to be bolted to the vehicle floor. 

Mo

[landroversforever]

A minibus/van floor is considerably stronger than the floor of a defender. Think of all the ribs and pressings in them. Even the seat box in the front of a defender is much stronger than the flat panel in the rear. 

The seats above have the belts contained in the seat back by the looks of it, so that’s a hell of a lot of leverage. 

[Snagger]

There is a lot of leverage from the height of the seats, but the length of the cargo rails has a lot of leverage too.  I think they’d be OK as long as they have plenty of high tensile bolts with sensibly sized load spreader plates under the floor, with plenty of anti corrosion treatment to make sure the floor doesn’t dissolve around the spreaders and lose any integrity.  It might not be ideal, but there are plenty of other safety compromises on Defenders and their predecessors anyway.  I think you’d be shocked at the mountings of aircraft seats, which invariably use similar tracks, and how little the tracks are attached to.  Yes, there is much tighter quality control on those parts and materials, at least in theory, but it works for seats with several large passengers and a 16g minimum rating.  You don’t get those sorts of loading in a Land Rover.

[Filbee]

Apologies to Luther that his thread has ended up in a debate about how to mount seats in the back of a Defender! It is interesting to hear some different views on what's acceptable and what's not though.

My rails are bolted through the floor using the correct tensile rated bolts and either genuine Unwin plates or washers that are acutely bigger than the size stated in the fitting guide where I couldn't use the plates. I think there are at least 16 bolts holding each length of rail to the floor. Some also pass through ribs the run under the floor, but not many.

The belts are built into the seats. Yes, that is a lot of leverage.

Looking at how the front seats and belts are mounted (see below - seat mountings are what looks like 4 rivnuts passing through 2, possibly 3 layers of steel sheet), I'm comfortable that my rear seats are fitted safely, but if anyone has any tangible evidence they aren't, I'll have a rethink. 

[Filbee]

Just out of interest, how are the factory fitted side facing seats fitted, or something like the Exmoor Trim fold-up front facing seats? Are they tied into the chassis or more securely mounted to the tub than my full length rails?

[Ed Poore]

On my 300Tdi 110 station wagon (side facing seats) there was a 3 or 4mm steel plate as a spreader plate for the rear, this was then braced to the rear cross member by a ~1.5" tube. Inside the cab there was then a similar specced tube that tucked into the "hip" of the tub and then bolted to the C pillar. Although this was primarily for the seat belts the frame for the seats was also tied into it as well as the tub. However the steel frame for the seats was far flimsier. Thereby backing up the fact that it was for the seat belt restraint rather than the seat restraint.

[Snagger]

16 hours ago, Filbee said:

Just out of interest, how are the factory fitted side facing seats fitted, or something like the Exmoor Trim fold-up front facing seats? Are they tied into the chassis or more securely mounted to the tub than my full length rails?

The Exmoor Trim seats are not tied to the chassis, and nor are the seat belts they provide.  They just use steel spreader plates underneath the tub panels.

The side facing seats are also not tied to the chassis, but they have no significant loads in an accident - the occupants thrown straight out of them.  When LR introduced lap belts of the benches or side facing seats, they installed a bar between the seat backs and the tub skin to attach the restrains, and that tied under the tub to the chassis.

[Luther]

On 5/14/2021 at 11:25 AM, Filbee said:

IMO it depends what you are intending to use them for.

I've fitted 3 Unwin rails like yours in the back of my 110 hardtop, and most if the time there are two minibus seats attached to them so I can get the kids in the back if we go off somewhere. I made damned sure I bolted them through the floor of the rear tub along the full length of the rails, using the correct spreader plates underneath where possible, and big old washers where there was room for the plates. 

I wouldn't be so worried if I was just going to slot some cargo/tie-down rings in them to use to stop a few bulky item sliding about. 

Just give some thought to how easy it would be for the rails and whatever the rails are attached to to separate from the vehicle structure 👍 

Here's what I did with mine. Yours looks much nicer I have to say 😎😊

Thanks for the response and completely agree. If this was for seats it would be more important.

 

Think I will have to make sure that if I sell then the person buying will need to know that fact. 

[Luther]

On 5/14/2021 at 5:42 AM, Troll Hunter said:

I agree with the above: a lovely piece of work.  What are the blue rails in the photos?  Sorry, but I just don't recognise them.

Mike

Mike,

 

just cargo tie down rails.

 

managed to find some with flat sides - which fitted better with the wood.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Airline-Van-Trailer-Pick-up-Motorcycle-Load-Securing-Rail-Square-100-cm-Long-/333901286298?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
 

im sure could have found them slightly cheaper but service was good from these guys.

 

[Luther]

18 hours ago, Filbee said:

Apologies to Luther that his thread has ended up in a debate about how to mount seats in the back of a Defender! It is interesting to hear some different views on what's acceptable and what's not though.

My rails are bolted through the floor using the correct tensile rated bolts and either genuine Unwin plates or washers that are acutely bigger than the size stated in the fitting guide where I couldn't use the plates. I think there are at least 16 bolts holding each length of rail to the floor. Some also pass through ribs the run under the floor, but not many.

The belts are built into the seats. Yes, that is a lot of leverage.

Looking at how the front seats and belts are mounted (see below - seat mountings are what looks like 4 rivnuts passing through 2, possibly 3 layers of steel sheet), I'm comfortable that my rear seats are fitted safely, but if anyone has any tangible evidence they aren't, I'll have a rethink. 

No problem Filbee,

 

we are all here to learn and understand- and if the answer helps save some ones life then all the better.

 

 

[Luther]

Was going to add for the thread where the wood came from.  As I said, I did cheat - which ended up saving a lot of time.

 

2 sets of oak bench slats from eBay.  I went with the 120cm long but having built the back now I could just have got away with the 100cm - which also would have opened up a couple of other options on the type of wood.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-Solid-Oak-Hardwood-Garden-Bench-Slats-1220mm-4ft-2-Seater-/313378934426?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
 

Have been building the extension over the weekend to fit when seats folded forward - photos to follow if people are interested.

 

 

[Luther]

For anyone interested I have created an Insta for Luther - 

 

would be interested in peoples thoughts on changes made ( and fully aware lots of people will be horrified about some of the changes).

https://www.instagram.com/p/CN-GPp0BBKj/?igshid=52t1z0jdwo3l

 

[Filbee]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

Have been building the extension over the weekend to fit when seats folded forward - photos to follow if people are interested.

 

 

Get those pictures up when you're ready. We all like pics 😎👌

[landroversforever]

Another vote for more pictures when you do the next bit

[Snagger]

I don’t have Instagram, so I’d be glad if you can post up some of the details and photos on here.  
 

Oak slats should serve well.  

[Luther]

Finally got to do the extended piece.

 

will be using it to give somewhere to sleep when camping.

[Luther]

Also managed to get the inserts for the drawer cut…..

 

it’s like thunderbird 2 - will have different foam inserts depending what we are doing.

[Luther]

And extension in place