Differential Lockers

[EduardoMD]

I just got a 1997 110 planning to build it for off roading:

just figuring: since this stock model equips central diff lock: would it be convenient or even would it be possible to eqiip/install rear and front differential lockers?

Being that the case: can all 3 be operated at the same time?

what is the function of the central locker providing we dont have rear nor front lockers?

[Landy7]

Hello and welcome to the forum, you can find a lot of information about Defenders and lockers online but to answer your questions:

- Yes you can install rear and front diff locks

- The standard central diff locking allows to equally divide the torque between the front axle and the rear axle so that if a rear wheel is lifted for example, 50% of the torque still reaches the front axle.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Landy7

[Bowie69]

Importantly, the centre difflock is designed to be used wherever there is possibility to lose traction, otherwise you can spin one wheel and burn the centre diff out quite quickly.

[landroversforever]

Centre diff unlocked - if you spin a single wheel you'll stop.

Centre diff locked - you'll need to spin a wheel on each axle to stop.

Axle lockers used with the centre diff locked you're adding to the minimum number of driven wheels. 

[nickwilliams]

One of things that nobody tells you about having lockers in both axles is that it means all the wheels are rotating at the same speed so basically the vehicle only wants to go in a straight line. Locker in the back, limited slip diff in the front gives nearly the same effect traction-wise but makes for much easier and precise steering.

[landroversforever]

36 minutes ago, nickwilliams said:

One of things that nobody tells you about having lockers in both axles is that it means all the wheels are rotating at the same speed so basically the vehicle only wants to go in a straight line. Locker in the back, limited slip diff in the front gives nearly the same effect traction-wise but makes for much easier and precise steering.

That’s a worthy point. 
That said I’d still choose full lockers for both ends. The rear makes the biggest difference (assuming you’re going forwards) so you can just disengage the front one when you need to turn and it’s trying to push straight on. 

[FridgeFreezer]

10 hours ago, landroversforever said:

That’s a worthy point. 
That said I’d still choose full lockers for both ends. The rear makes the biggest difference (assuming you’re going forwards) so you can just disengage the front one when you need to turn and it’s trying to push straight on. 

Same here - definitely ON or definitely OFF is my choice any day.

Also I find the front locker gets used incredibly rarely so I'd say really not necessary for 99% of the time.

[landroversforever]

Also add that if the ground is bad enough to need a front locker.... an LSD is going to just turn both wheels like a lock I’d have thought. 

[Bowie69]

An ATB/truetrac is the ideal in that situation. 

[Sigi_H]

I made a 100% locker only in the front axle and a ATB in the centre. The salisbury rear axle is stable enough, but the front locker also improves the durability of the front axle as well and provides locking now. If something is really to hard I still have the winch ... but of course this car is for traveling.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Sigi_H

[FridgeFreezer]

3 hours ago, Sigi_H said:

I made a 100% locker only in the front axle and a ATB in the centre. The salisbury rear axle is stable enough, but the front locker also improves the durability of the front axle as well and provides locking now. If something is really to hard I still have the winch ... but of course this car is for traveling.

Are you saying you've got a locker in the front, ATB in the centre and nothing in the back? Because that's a very weird setup if so.

[Snagger]

Much better if only running one locking or semi locking axle diff for it to be in the back.  Ashcroft don’t make Salisbury ATBs, which is a real shame, but Eaton make a Trutrac for the Salisbury, and Quaife make them with the six scroll gears peruse like the Ashcroft unit (expensive, but not bad compared to a full locking diff).

[Sigi_H]

3 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Are you saying you've got a locker in the front, ATB in the centre and nothing in the back? Because that's a very weird setup if so.

Yes, exactly. Remember the car is for travelling. The Salisbury is bulletproof anyway and the front axle is a lot better quality with a locker. 4 pin locker diff instead of 2 pin diff. If I put the locker in the rear, I didn't improve quality of the front axle, but have only a little better traction.

For me this is perfect.

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, Sigi_H said:

Yes, exactly. Remember the car is for travelling. The Salisbury is bulletproof anyway and the front axle is a lot better quality with a locker. 4 pin locker diff instead of 2 pin diff. If I put the locker in the rear, I didn't improve quality of the front axle, but have only a little better traction.

For me this is perfect.

Locker in the rear is way more useful than one in the front though. Seems like a massive waste in the front. 

[Anderzander]

Has anyone ever made a solenoid operated locker for a Land Rover ? 

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, Anderzander said:

Has anyone ever made a solenoid operated locker for a Land Rover ? 

The original type KAM ones use a solenoid. 

[FridgeFreezer]

2 hours ago, Anderzander said:

Has anyone ever made a solenoid operated locker for a Land Rover ? 

KAM were, and air lockers are indirectly solenoid operated if you're being pedantic

[Sigi_H]

12 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Locker in the rear is way more useful than one in the front though. Seems like a massive waste in the front. 

In my experience not. Remember you never go to the limit when you are on a journey. I experience a lot better traction than without locker and in addition I improved the quality of the font axle a lot. Steering stiffness has never been a problem.   I have achieved two goals with one conversion for a lower price than putting the locker into the Salisbury.

[Sigi_H]

Just thought about it. Why should locker in the back be better than in the front?

When both wheels on an axle have the same revs it tends to go straight anyway, no matter if it's in the front or in the rear.

I see an advantage to have it in the front, because I even CAN adjust a direction of the driven wheels. In the rear not even that is possible. I have to trust on the grip of the front wheels. If there is no grip it will go straight.

My conclusion is, the locker in the front will be more useful. Am I right or wrong?

[Bowie69]

For touring you could well be right. 

My take on more serious off roading, rear is where it is best. Reason is, it is easy to drive down hill, rarely get stuck. On  uphill sections, and indeed level sections where you are giving it some, the rear will have more traction than the front due to weight transfer, giving you more grip. 

On steep hills you can quite easily unload the front axle so much that you have no traction whatsoever... And your locker is not much use then in the front. 

 

[Snagger]

I can see what Sigi was trying to achieve, and it has its logic - trying to eliminate a known weak link in the transmission without spending vast sums.  The aim was to have something robust, not to improve off road or severe weather capability.   I agree that an ATB makes a lot more sense than an open 4-pin diff as you get a similar increase in ruggedness with a free boost in grip, and from that ruggedness perspective alone, there is no need to upgrade the Salisbury.  Still, I’d have some nagging concerns about overloading the front shafts or CVs without them being assisted much by the rear axle in bad conditions.  The rear axle really ought to be doing the bulk of the pushing.  If you don’t drive in those conditions, though...

[garrycol]

Either is better than nothing but in most situations a locker in the rear as more helpful as normally lockers come into their own when going up hill and weight transfer improves effectiveness - front lightens but also steering is more difficult when the front is locked.  However I would put it down to personal preferences and go with what you are happy with - though when offroad you can leave a rear locker in all the time but having a front locker in will cause major steering issues - mainly being heavy.

I have one vehicle that has a detroit in the rear and it works great - install and forget.

In my other vehicle I have a manual locker in the rear and a manual locker in the front - I use the one in the rear all the time but rarely have used the one in the front.

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by garrycol

[Sigi_H]

I like to go up steep hills in reverse. If you get stuck, it is easy to go down forwards without the risk of coming sideways and roll. So for me my front locker is the right choice even in this case 👍🙂

My CVs and shafts in the front are Tibus parts. This and the pegged Ashcroft 100% locker have improved the entire front axle for sure. I hope it is now as strong as the Salisbury in the rear.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Sigi_H

[Escape]

17 hours ago, Sigi_H said:

I like to go up steep hills in reverse. If you get stuck, it is easy to go down forwards without the risk of coming sideways and roll. So for me my front locker is the right choice even in this case 👍🙂

 

That's an interesting idea! I wouldn't be comfortable if it's actually steep enough to get stuck. Steering could get interesting, and not really possible to carry any momentum.

For travelling, I can understand why you've gone for the front locker in combination with the rear salisbury. Like most I do have the habit of engaging the rear locker first and it is usally enough. But more drive to the front wheels can help you claw through stuff like soft mud or snow and help you get out of ruts.

Filip

[Sigi_H]

If I'd really needed momentum to go up a steep hill on a journey, why not use the winch right away instead? I often wonder in Videos on YT why people try hard to go up a steep hill withoud releasing tyre pressure or without using their winch, but with lots of momentum.

That's definitely gentler. Maybe that shows, why a front locker AND a winch is perfect for travelling.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Sigi_H