There goes that then

[sheeppimp]

Jim, bang on.

Im currently working with a guy who talks like that, in the last meeting, I lost all thought completely, as I was just counting how many times Im going to punch him!

Latest one off him, which should result in a kick in his b*ll*x, after missing a couple of calls to each others mobiles was his voice message of "Sorry to be playing phone tennis with you" - irritating numpty.

They should all go forth and create revunue streams!!

bingo for the next meeting - it does tend to upset the numptys when you call house after five minutes of meeting though

[FridgeFreezer]

My big boss is a yank, first call I had with him he said "I want to get you into solutions mode on this" my measured response was "You're f***ed then, aren't you?"

[Guest diesel_jim]

I hear what you're saying but the bottom line is that we have to think out of the box to facilitate blue sky thinking.

Taking it to the next level will need us to bring core competencies to the table which will create a win-win situation and really empower the team to push the envelope.

Our client focus incentivises our team to create synergies which create best practice and state of the art solutions to maximise our cost base and remove disinvenctives to save.

We will take ownership of your critical needs and ensure that lessons leartn add to the big picture.

Thank you for this oppotunity to discuss this scenario and i look forward to revisiting your world class game plan in the near future.

Give it a week, then call them to touch base on it... once it's complete you can put it to bed.

[bill van snorkle]

It's not only the editors of Brit mags that haven't got a clue. Way back in the late 1970's when I first designed and was attempting to market lockable differentials for LandRovers, I called the editor of a then popular but now defunct Australian 4wd magazine to come for a spin around an offroad course in a series 2 that I had just fitted difflocks to. This editor was anybody's for 20 pieces of silver, but was mainly in the generous pockets of the Toymota company. Anyway that's beside the point. On the drive out to the offroad course this guy said to me that ''so many 4 wheel drive vehicles get stolen these days,that the ability to lock the diffs up is the best anti theft device he has come across to date'' I was so dumbstruck I almost ran into a tree on the roadside.

Bill.

[istruggle2gate11]

It's not only the editors of Brit mags that haven't got a clue. Way back in the late 1970's when I first designed and was attempting to market lockable differentials for LandRovers, I called the editor of a then popular but now defunct Australian 4wd magazine to come for a spin around an offroad course in a series 2 that I had just fitted difflocks to. This editor was anybody's for 20 pieces of silver, but was mainly in the generous pockets of the Toymota company. Anyway that's beside the point. On the drive out to the offroad course this guy said to me that ''so many 4 wheel drive vehicles get stolen these days,that the ability to lock the diffs up is the best anti theft device he has come across to date'' I was so dumbstruck I almost ran into a tree on the roadside.

Bill.

[FridgeFreezer]

You mean that's not what they're for?

I've been doing it all wrong then

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I hear what you're saying but the bottom line is that we have to think out of the box to facilitate blue sky thinking.

Taking it to the next level will need us to bring core competencies to the table which will create a win-win situation and really empower the team to push the envelope.

Our client focus incentivises our team to create synergies which create best practice and state of the art solutions to maximise our cost base and remove disinvenctives to save.

We will take ownership of your critical needs and ensure that lessons leartn add to the big picture.

Thank you for this oppotunity to discuss this scenario and i look forward to revisiting your world class game plan in the near future.

Are you my Boss ?

I hear what you say Jim, and thats a great thought. Please hold that thought, and we can jointly explore and diversify from it into hopefully a more global helicopter view of the issue at hand, maybe considering a more holistic approach rather than drilling down and peeling back the onion. I'm sure you can bring more to the party, so please continue to produce a qulaity result which is both customer focused and micro-managed to gain the top drawer result.

I have a cretin that does this all the time, unfortunately we rip him on it so badly...... and he lacks a sense of humour

well, he does now

Drives you nuts

Nige

[Highway_Star]

"He replied that it had been off the road for a year or more because no one would give him the bits for free to finish it."

Evidently sarcasm/tongue in cheek dry humour is lost on you people, if you genuinely believe that this is how he thinks then you are a very poor judge of character.

Dave, I have seen him put his hand in his pocket, not often, but it has happened

One thing I notice no one has considered in this debate. What is the primary function of a magazine like TOR? Is it to inform and entertain what is a relatively small percentage of the readership such as the dozen or so denegrators on here, or is to make money for the publisher?

What sells more copies? Articles on one off hand built projects which 98% of 4x4 drivers can never aspire to, or articles on bolt on bits or projects that someone paid someone else to do, which anyone with a few quid can aspire to? Food for thought.

Yes we'd all like a magzine/TV show/website tailored to our own individual tastes, but these things are market driven. If there's no market for fir it, it won't happen.

I don't read any of the comics either btw, I get LRM delivered for some reason, I don't have a subscription they just send it to me. The only thing it's good for is getting prices for parts out of the adverts, the once or twice I've flicked through it I was glad I hadn't shelled out my brass on it. My particular least favourite slot is 'Whitehall Wheels', ever our local rag can produce scribbles more interesting than that drivvle! And how many times a month does Ross Floyd chew up his lawn with a 109 S2B FC, to the annoyance of his wife I read one or two of the Project Shoestring acrticles, I fail to see how having the repairs done on that Disco by Mansfield 4x4 is doing it on a shoestring, as if they were paying for it, the labour alone would have come to many times the value of that old nail. I've recently done near exactly the same on my Range Rover, both sills and rear cross member, I did it in my own garage, with a second hand mig and a lot of swearing. That's a shoestring!

[FridgeFreezer]

What sells more copies? Articles on one off hand built projects which 98% of 4x4 drivers can never aspire to, or articles on bolt on bits or projects that someone paid someone else to do, which anyone with a few quid can aspire to? Food for thought.

Anyone can do stuff themselves, it's easier these days than possibly it's ever been with cheap tools and materials on hand. It's not beyond even the most basic reader to fit toys and do a lot of mods themselves, yet the comics order ready-made carp, drive to their nearest "specialist" and get them to bolt it on.

The problem is, if they cultivate this idea that that's the only way to do it, people will never be inclined to try doing it themselves - if you never show people how it's done, it remains mysterious and "best left to the specialists" rather than something to be had a go at.

How often do you see posts on forums asking if a job is possible to do yourself or best left to an adult? That's because people want to know, and want to have a go at it, but need a bit of encouragement - b*gger all of which they get from the mags.

[Lewis]

How often do you see posts on forums asking if a job is possible to do yourself or best left to an adult? That's because people want to know, and want to have a go at it, but need a bit of encouragement - b*gger all of which they get from the mags.

Shame you didnt follow your own advice and give this guy a bit more encouragement

[FridgeFreezer]

Shame you didnt follow your own advice and give this guy a bit more encouragement

He didn't need any more encouragement

[hingmy]

Dear Mr Fridge-Freezer,

(assuming you are whom i think you may be behind the nom-de-plume)

My most sincere thanks for the helpfull input.

For the record, for those of you who might care about a bit of honesty or possibly integrity.

Over the time I have fulfilled this position - I have discussed the future prospects of my vehicle in an informal way as to the direction it may take with many people, some of whom i considered to be friends, or at least travelling companions in the right direction.

At no point had I expected a manufacturer, fabricator or mechanic to do anything for free, cheap or otherwise, indeed I have on many occasions expressed my lack of ability in the fabrication department. At no point had I any offer of major help with the vehicle as a result of my position of employment. Just for the record, the vehicle stems from long before the job and is a result of many discussion between myself and friends. Up to this point in time the only task not undertaken by myself was welding - which those who understand will appreciate is a task best left to those who know what they are doing.

It is currently off the road due to financial circumstances that are not the concern of either yourselves or my employer. It will return later in the year should any of you be interested.

For those of you who may have an issue with my employer or their editorial policy, please feel free to contact Alan Kidd via "editorial@wwonline.co.uk", but please do not describe me as has been done here, without having the dignity to talk to me man to man.

Thank you all for your encouragement - I'm just off back to take up rambling and mountain biking.

Thank you for your time.

Steve Taylor.

[Mo Murphy]

Interesting thread this, I'd like to comment but having never even seen TRO for sale let alone buy it, I shan't. Bit of a distribution problem there I'd say. Perhaps it's just as well.

Mo

[bill van snorkle]

Interesting thread this, I'd like to comment but having never even seen TRO for sale let alone buy it, I shan't. Bit of a distribution problem there I'd say. Perhaps it's just as well.

Mo

You'll never find it Mo, because it's TOR.

Bill.

[Mo Murphy]

Ah cunning, Bill, they changed the name eh ?

Mo

[Guest WALFY]

I think i agree with you all, we looked at advertising in TOR when they changed the format to the 'only mud' unfortunatly the mag seems to of gone downhill, the articles need to be more in depth and more knowladgeable, a young lad from down our way had is truck in there, there was no talk of what hed done to the truck AT THE AGE OF 14 - ON HIS OWN ! just a list of mods, well i can seee that with my own eyes.. Theyve had some interesting vehicles in there with a oppertunity to write some good, interesting and informative articles...

Now im going to stirr it up even more.. this is my own personal opinion so please dont take offence, i dont mean it to be...

Since working within the whole 4x4 'industry' if you want to call it that ive noticed that there is no enthusiasts anymore.. You used to be able to walk into your local 4x4 parts place, outside would be a load of modded trucks, the guys working would be out off roading sunday etc... Now all you see is a bunch of citroen berlingos and some muppet who doesnt know his head from his a**e..

Over the last few years everything has become so competitive, people are obsessed with buying things as cheap as physically possible, no brand loyalty anymore, extreme team !! Companies see it as one huge moneypit now and the magazines take themselfs so seriously..

What happend to the FUN side of it...

Surely the mags can see what people are interested in, ive only been on this forum for a while, but id reccomend any editor to take a look on this forum for proof..

Ive great respect for ppl like Kev baldwin and Charlie thorn, i think they write some interesting stuff.. But most of all they are REAL enthusiasts..

RANT OVER

BTW Maybe some of the guys from here should offer to write for TOR - few extra pennies surely !

Cheers Chris

Cris

I had a look at Charlies bobtail when he sold it. And who ever did his work was not a proffesional. Bodge after bodge. How it didn't have an electrical fire with the shoddy wiring is beyond me. On the surface it looked good but on closer inspection it was an abortion. As an example why would a 200TDI in a RRC need a bonnet extraction fan???

[glaggs]

My interest in off roading came from picking up a copy of TOR. I enjoyed the read and got the bug. Since then I've bought and read all the other Landrover biased 4x4 mags. usually because they have an article which aroused my interest. On the whole I still find TOR gives a better balance of read for those who like to use their trucks as God intended. I also know Steve through meeting when he photo'd my truck for the mag and subsequently at many of the events he has attended. I find him friendly, open minded and a true 4x4 enthusiast. I would like to have him as a friend, perhaps now I'm being biased. A mag like TOR which is so specialised to the point that it struggles for circulation will consequently struggle for advertising revinue. Anyone who knows anything about the world of magazine production knows this is where the money is made, not the money they get from off the shelf sales. It would be a shame if TOR disappeared from our newsagents, but alas with the biggotted, ill informed bleatings that I've read from some people on here I can see that the Landrover best sod the rest biggotry I find at Landrover shows, in mags and on various forums will win the day and those who don't want to follow the flock will have no where to get our fix.

TOR don't always get it right, who does, but they feature vehicles and products because of what they are, not for the badge on the bonnet.

Rant over - sorry - see you in the mud somewhere soon!

[Steve Hiatt]

My interest in off roading came from picking up a copy of TOR. I enjoyed the read and got the bug. Since then I've bought and read all the other Landrover biased 4x4 mags. usually because they have an article which aroused my interest. On the whole I still find TOR gives a better balance of read for those who like to use their trucks as God intended. I also know Steve through meeting when he photo'd my truck for the mag and subsequently at many of the events he has attended. I find him friendly, open minded and a true 4x4 enthusiast. I would like to have him as a friend, perhaps now I'm being biased. A mag like TOR which is so specialised to the point that it struggles for circulation will consequently struggle for advertising revinue. Anyone who knows anything about the world of magazine production knows this is where the money is made, not the money they get from off the shelf sales. It would be a shame if TOR disappeared from our newsagents, but alas with the biggotted, ill informed bleatings that I've read from some people on here I can see that the Landrover best sod the rest biggotry I find at Landrover shows, in mags and on various forums will win the day and those who don't want to follow the flock will have no where to get our fix.

TOR don't always get it right, who does, but they feature vehicles and products because of what they are, not for the badge on the bonnet.

Rant over - sorry - see you in the mud somewhere soon!

Yeah, this forum is only frequented by Solihul rivet counters

Mate, you are so wide of the mark I can only think this is the only thread you have read, or understood, on this forum.

[glaggs]

Until reading this thread, or more accurately some of the comments in this thread I had been quite happy with the banter on here, but I hate it when it gets personnal. Costructive critism is great and the guys at TOR will agree I'm sure, but to start getting personnal ain't cricket, or off roading!

[Mo Murphy]

glaggs, were you sent here ?

Mo

[Adrian Turner]

Well my truck will be going in TOR, pic's to be shoot in the few weeks, i'm doing it for all the people out there that may/don't go on forum's or enter challenge's. But it may just help encourage, kick start the next generation of off-road truck builder's to make that start. I feel that we need to get as many truck's in the mag's to show what you can do to a truck with a bit of thought, it can be home built or cheque book, it make's no odd's to me, just as long as people get the chance to see what can be done.

In my eye's mine's just another 90'' tray back, but somebody may think i like that! and start to build/alter there's to something that they feel is just that bit differant to the rest and maybe get out and start to use/compete in it.

I for one get all the mag's sometimes theres a lot in there sometimes there's not, but there's always some info in there that's helpfull to me, but as an example of thing's that pi$$ me of are, a pic of a modded disco being call a r/rover! the mike wolfe write up in lrm did not have the winner's name's mentioned! That's more of a personal one!

Just my thought's.......... now i'll shut up!

[dollythelw]

Im intreagued about the landrover only bias comment on this forum, I think if you look around theres more than a few examples of subversive behaviour in terms of tech, build, open minded approach and support that you would be hard placed to find anywhere else.

Back O/T I read an article by fat fred kriggsman about Ladoga in TOR a few years ago, it fired me up to go - would I buy it now? nah - I dont have brand loyality, I buy what I want based purely on interest value (mostly jazz mags nowadays - Ive always been a fan of Charlie Parker )

none of the UK mags are interested in what I build.......

Im distraught

[FridgeFreezer]

the biggotted, ill informed bleatings that I've read from some people on here I can see that the Landrover best sod the rest biggotry I find

Errr, have you actually read this thread, or any of this forum?

As Steve said, you're so wide of the mark you could get a job writing tech articles for TOR

[Corrode Finger]

Didnt buy the latest mag, nothing caught my eye, but the only 'interesting' bit for me was the greenlane mentioned in Wales, as it goes past sheppimp's house, on the opposite side of the valley!!

I was just jealous that he has a greenlane that close to home, about 200m away as the crow flies.

Having said that, an following the 'dissapointment' of some on this thread, if they think the mags are 'poor' when it comes to feature vehicles, why do they not offer up there creations to demonstrate what can be done?

As Adrian pointed out, it might be the 'kick' the industry needs. At the end of the day, if the mag does not know about a truck thats built in a garage by a budding builder, how the heck is anyone else going to see it if the owner of said truck does not offer to let it be featured?

Kinda a Catch 22, someone with a high spec home fab trucjk has got too let it be featured before potentially other similar trucks come along?

At the end of the day, its the people building trucks who supply the mag porn, and if the only people who offer their machines are 'the bolt on brigade' then thats what gets seen!

If you offer and then they refuse cos you dont have the latest brand names, then you have cause to claim they are poor?

Just a thought?

[Corrode Finger]

Didnt buy the latest mag, nothing caught my eye, but the only 'interesting' bit for me was the greenlane mentioned in Wales, as it goes past sheppimp's house, on the opposite side of the valley!!

I was just jealous that he has a greenlane that close to home, about 200m away as the crow flies.

Having said that, an following the 'dissapointment' of some on this thread, if they think the mags are 'poor' when it comes to feature vehicles, why do they not offer up there creations to demonstrate what can be done?

As Adrian pointed out, it might be the 'kick' the industry needs. At the end of the day, if the mag does not know about a truck thats built in a garage by a budding builder, how the heck is anyone else going to see it if the owner of said truck does not offer to let it be featured?

Kinda a Catch 22, someone with a high spec home fab trucjk has got too let it be featured before potentially other similar trucks come along?

At the end of the day, its the people building trucks who supply the mag porn, and if the only people who offer their machines are 'the bolt on brigade' then thats what gets seen!

If you offer and then they refuse cos you dont have the latest brand names, then you have cause to claim they are poor?

Just a thought?

EDIT

CAN A MOD REMOVE THE DOUBLE POST, DARN WORK NETWORK?