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Glow plug wiring - 19J off ignition switch - zero volts. Please can someone help....


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Hi - two images attached, wired up genuine part received last week and original PRC unit removed as thought faulty.

Starter bus feed connected to term 5, glow plus (brown / Red) connected to term 2 etc. as diagrams above.

No feed at term 2 until cranking (position 3) etc. as above.

Hard to believe isn't it...  it all looks right, but three units show consistently wrong feeds.

Chubby.

Image - blank PRC2735.jpg

Image - wired up PRC2735 genuine LR part.jpg

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Something else which is odd, in your tables, there is no change between going from key 0 to key 1. The only change is from key 1 to key 2. Are the barrel lock and switch properly aligned? It seems all one click out.

Just found this:

 

 I think you switch says 162SA as well. So the wiring is correct, and I doubt all 3 switches are duff, and given what I said about key positions, I think that is your problem.

The acid test to check you glow plug wiring is to use a set of jump leads to connect to the red brown bypassing the ignition switch entirely, and see if that makes starting easier.

Edited by simonb
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@simonb Interesting suggestions, will try in the morning.  I thought about the barrel lock, but position 3 cranking is fine..  it does possibly feel "loose" between position 0, 1 and 2 - but I may be making that up as its been such a pig of a few weeks with this.

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And the God of Looms strike back with vengeance...... I am smitted, a fallen man and clearly not worthy of owning a 110.....

Received today a shiny new genuine LR column lock and switch (genuine lucas part fitted as standard) - a simple swap over and full of anticipation for the impending victory over the God of Looms.... 

Replacement shiny genuine LR part fitted,  time for multimeter....  Positive feed connected to term. 5, all other wires left off the switch.  Time to turn the key....

Bloody thing still does not read volts on terminal 2 (Brown / Red) in position 2 as per the spec, the manual and all collected wisdom....  Worse, the actual results are IDENTICAL to the above for the three switches I have (including no feed on position 1 for the ancillaries, lights etc.)  and still no shagging feed to the glow plugs..... The only time I get a feed to the glow plug terminal is on cranking.

I have no idea what to do now......

Is there any chance that the starter solenoid or some other cut off / relay is interfering...?   I can only think now my only option is the 200/300TDI relay route, but that does not solve the underlying issue...

All Help very much appreciated......

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54 minutes ago, Chubby M said:

And the God of Looms strike back with vengeance...... I am smitted, a fallen man and clearly not worthy of owning a 110.....

Received today a shiny new genuine LR column lock and switch (genuine lucas part fitted as standard) - a simple swap over and full of anticipation for the impending victory over the God of Looms.... 

Replacement shiny genuine LR part fitted,  time for multimeter....  Positive feed connected to term. 5, all other wires left off the switch.  Time to turn the key....

Bloody thing still does not read volts on terminal 2 (Brown / Red) in position 2 as per the spec, the manual and all collected wisdom....  Worse, the actual results are IDENTICAL to the above for the three switches I have (including no feed on position 1 for the ancillaries, lights etc.)  and still no shagging feed to the glow plugs..... The only time I get a feed to the glow plug terminal is on cranking.

I have no idea what to do now......

Is there any chance that the starter solenoid or some other cut off / relay is interfering...?   I can only think now my only option is the 200/300TDI relay route, but that does not solve the underlying issue...

All Help very much appreciated......

The only idea I have is if you want to send me one of your switches and I will wire it up to my 19J 110 to test it for you and post the results on this thread in comparison to my switch. 

DM me if you would like to send me a switch. 

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Just reconnected everything per the original wiring and tried the truck.

It fires eventually, the glow plugs warming on crank only.

Once running (position 2) I have power at the heater, wipers and radio (plus two purple constant lives).  Struggling to get power to show up in the lighting circuits (dash lights etc.) and the indicators / hazard flashers (no noise from the relays either).

@Hawklord thanks for the thread - I'll read and see what that brings.

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Ok heres another one in case this jogs a view from anyone.  The cassis number of the truck SALLDHMV7  BA xxxxxxxx

This if I'm decoding it right suggests it started as a petrol 3.5ltr v8.  The conversion to 2.5 turbo diesel was donkeys years ago so not expecting this to be an issue (no least as it used to run ok pre strip down)  but....   if it triggers an idea please call it out..

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Did that V8 have a choke cable? For my TDI in a series, I used the choke light switch on the cable as the switch for the glow plug relay.

 

I've never used it. The TDI starts fine on the key in most weathers.

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I have received the switch from Chubby to test and it checks out fine when I put my multi-meter on it. I wired it to my 110 fitted with a 19J TD engine and the glow plugs came on and it fired up as normal when I turned the switch to start.

Using your photo of the switch I have shown what should go where:

 

image.png.bf99ef05613ffbfe267c22b8ed9556ac.png

Using Terminal 5 as the 12V supply to the switch this is what I observed:

  • Switch in the off position - terminals 1, 2, 3 and 4 are not live (off)
  • Switch in position 1 - terminals 1 and 3 are both live  (ignition on)
  • Switch in position 2 (hold) - terminals 2 and 3 are both live (glowplug hold)
  • Switch in poition 3 (hold) - terminals 3 and 4 are live (start position)

Next steps that I suggest are: Initially test one of your switches with a multimeter on resistance mode to see if you can replicate what I describe above as you turn the switch.

Wire up your 110 according to my diagram and it should work. If not something is wrong with the glow plug wiring, if that's the case it should be easy to sort out as it is a very basic circuit. Let us know your findings.

Below is a quick sketch I've made of the glow plug circuit for reference to show it is a simple circuit on pre Tdi diesels like the 19J engine:

image.png.18b0e8b867615cb7f78b0ce1ac5dcd86.png

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To add: The troubleshooting needs to be very stepwise and only moving to the next variable once you have checked out each step one at a time. This would be the action I would take to remove all variables and then introduce them one at a time:

  • Check the switch on its own out the vehicle to rule out any of your 110's wiring. Either just use the multimeter on the resistance setting or make a test lamp using crocodile clips and spare wire; connect it directly to the battery terminals
  • Once that checks out okay, hook the switch up terminal 5 to the permanent live feed and confirm the switch has 12V feed with your test lamp to a known good earth or better still straight to the negative battery terminal.
  • I have ordered the switch terminals in importance (I know they are ultimately all important, but step by step is needed).
    • terminal 3 is most important as it supplies all the live circuits including the stop solenoid on the injection pump. Confirm this becomes live and stays live in switch positions 1, 2 and 3.
    • terminal 4 is of next importance as it activates the relay to the starter motor solenoid allowing the engine to turn over. This must be live in switch position 3 only.
    • terminal 2 is not that important for now as it powers the glowplugs - useless without the other two terminals functioning. This should be live with the switch in position 2.
    • terminal 1 is of least importance as it is powering the radio and heat fan motor. Who needs those in a Land Rover anyway where you know you'll be deaf and cold :lol:

I hope this is helpful. Let us know how you get on.

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Great support @monkie I really do appreciate this.  I spent yesterday plodding through the tests and loom checks as you mentioned, still no firm cause of my issues but I have a clear way forward for which I am very grateful.  the power of community evident again here.  Huge thanks.

Chubby,

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  • 4 weeks later...

Good afternoon gents, after a protracted break (DIY as penance for not getting the truck sorted - apparently 6 years is a long time...)....

I've some news, which I thought may be of use for others.

First off @monkie @simonb@western and @Hawklord My sincere thanks for your thoughts, insight etc.

I've spent 48 hours following @monkie instructions and suggestions.... I've fixed it, the truck heats and fires!!!!!

While not 100% sure which action sorted the issues the following are what I did to address apparent weak earth, loose connections etc..

1.  Disconnect and clean / re-fit all earth straps - battery to chassis, chassis to engine, chassis to gearbox / transfer box and added a chassis to bulkhead.

2. Disconnect and clean all positive feeds to positive bus on the starter motor.  Some oil and debris here.

3. Re-fitted a shielded femail spade end to the starter solenoid (was damaged and loose).  I think this traces to the white / red on terminal 4.

4. removed the ignition barrel mounting etc. and cleaned the rusted stearing column, to ensure the switch was well earthed.

5. replaced all fuses on the bulk head fuse and one inline fuse (white / black from memory while the dash was out).

Of note also from a testing perspective, I bought a cheep test lamp (with a voltage LED) instead of the multimeter which I found so much easier for voltage tests.

Delighted to note I have hot glow plugs etc...  just the ancillary circuits to test and connect now.

Thank you all. 

 

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