What do you guys think of this ?

[smallfry]

At the weekend I sold one of our vehicles for £6k. The buyer didnt want to do a bank transfer, as he said he had a lot of cash he wanted to get rid of. All in Twenties. 

He insisted on counting it out in front of me, and insisted that I counted it again myself, which I did. All present and correct. Off he went with the vehicle no problem.

I dont like having this sort of money hanging around, so it left me with the problem of having to take it to my Bank, but of course its not quite so easy nowadays, as my local branch, along with many others has closed down. So I had to go to another town.

So, yesterday morning I counted it out again, (and got SWMBO to check it) into three envelopes of £2k each, and drove to the Bank. So far so good.

Arrived at bank and presented cash and details to cashier, who then proceeded to count it herself, flicking through it herself, then using one of those electronic scales to weigh it. She then told me it was £60 short, and would I like to count it again myself ? I  said it cannot be, as three people had already checked it. She then left the desk, to "turn off the aircon", as that sometimes affects the scales. She then weighed it again, and said that came up the same. £60 short. 

Of course, you start to doubt yourself, but I insisted the scales must  be wrong. SO, with a puff, she counted it manually, very quickly. Twice. She then said that yes, the scales must be wrong, as it was actually £100 short. As I said, you start to doubt yourself, and added to that, people in the queue behind were huffing and puffing, so add some embarrassment to the doubt. I figured that she must be right, and that we have all miscounted, also that if the money was missing, there was no point in me taking it back and counting again, so I agreed it was short, so account was credited £5900.

I felt uneasy driving home, and the more I thought about it, the more I thought I had diddled by some sleight of hand.

Back home, SWMBO said no way was it short. She worked for a Credit Union, and is very used to counting cash, as am I, due to my ex job. She also thinks something has gone on. There is no chance any of it has been "lost" or "borrowed".

So, do I report it ? Of course I have absolutely no evidence, but I still cannot believe that three of us got it wrong, but I feel uneasy about it, and that, couple with the fact that this branch is closing down in a couple of weeks, is making me suspicious. 

I cant help wondering if other customers have experienced the same, but have said nothing because of self doubt, and not wanting to drop anyone in it with false accusations. 

[steve b]

Nothing to be done , you should have took it back and counted right there on your side of the glass .

Put it down to experience . I trust no one in situations like that , and to be honest , you are lucky none were forged .

Steve

[Simon_CSK]

I would agree with Steve. It is now in the past as far as the bank is concerned you left having accepted that you were £100 short.

[western]

As above I would of taken it all back home & recounted it again & maybe put it in £100 blocks. 

Nothing you can do to recover the shortfall now. 

[monkie]

That's an interesting tale, I feel your frustration. I would have been very suspicious of someone insisting on cash by saying they "had a large amount he wanted to get rid of". Personally I hate dealing in cash and wouldn't accept a sale for that sum for many of those reasons. 

[Steve King]

I think that in most banks the tills are covered by CCTV. 

I would complain! Personally I would have done so at the time, but I would still give it a go! You have nothing to lose, but plenty to gain!

On a similar note my wife and I are guardians of a granddaughter who is currently off school and self isolating. I had an email from the school advising that we are entitled to some shopping vouchers and that I could come and collect them from reception. I was pleasantly surprised to find out after counting them twice,  that the vouchers totalled £75. I spent £20 in vouchers and when I got back home I found out that I still have £65 in vouchers.

 

As an aside I now insist that large amounts of cash are paid in at the bank by the person purchasing from me!

[smallfry]

2 hours ago, steve b said:

Nothing to be done , you should have took it back and counted right there on your side of the glass .

Put it down to experience . I trust no one in situations like that , and to be honest , you are lucky none were forged .

Steve

The buyer was a friend of Brother in Law, so I wasnt really concerned about counterfeit notes, although I do not really like taking cash now for that reason.

I figured that if it was a sleight of hand thing (she left the desk) the difference would already be gone, so no point in me counting it. As you say, I have put it down to experience, but if there is a next time, I will count it out over the counter. 

[Anderzander]

It is worth reporting.

Two things that strike me as odd:

Their scales are wrong by her assertion …. That should be an intolerable position for the Bank. Even aside from your counting - the difference from her counting to the machine should be a major concern to the branch.

Also their teller may have a few of these following her - they don’t want a dodgy teller, they will look into it if you get the message to the right person.

[Blanco]

To answer the title, definitely something going on there. ....

I had a near miss when I sold a sawmill a while back, I took it to the North of Ireland and recieved a carrier bag of used notes (Stirling) in return. Very careful to find the nearest branch of my own bank in the North  before I left and went straight round to deposit same. The teller refused to take it at first on the grounds of insufficient paperwork for the sale (handwritten note). I said that we needed to speak to someone who could authorise the deposit because it was absolutely unreasonable to expect me to walk out of the bank with the bag now that everyone behind me knew about it, it took a couple of minutes to 'consult' but problem solved! The machine there handled about 5 different 'Northern' types of note ( like Scotland they have their own as well as the UK variants) and the result was spot on, I was pleased as I had randomly sampled the bundles rather than a total count. 

 

[Anderzander]

It’s quite complex for them these days with the anti money laundering legislation- however I think the decision still sits with the manager. 

[pete3000]

The only other thought is the notes were lighter (worn down) or wrong paper (counterfeit). So maybe don't look too close?. Just a thought.

[Quagmire]

I used to work (years and years ago) as a cashier in a bank, and there were a few dodgy people that got caught in various local branches nicking so it does happen!

The Aircon would not have affected the scales, no way...

I would report it, and then the body of evidence will gather against that person, as has been said above you won't be the first (or last) person that they rip off...

[jeremy996]

Always report shortages - and the blaming the aircon. Too many customers complaining will get the cashier checked by internal audit.

I've had to organise an intimate search under caution before now, as the errant cashier, already under suspicion, was ratted out by an ex-partner and even the union couldn't object anymore.

(ex-Internal Audit, local authorities, credit union and insurance broker).

[smallfry]

23 hours ago, pete3000 said:

The only other thought is the notes were lighter (worn down) or wrong paper (counterfeit). So maybe don't look too close?. Just a thought.

It WAS a really hot day, and it did cross my mind, as most of the notes were the older paper type notes, but as they were not stuffed into a sweaty pocket or down me trousers, I did not think that it could be this.

As has been said, I doubt if they have the most inexpensive Argos scales in a Bank, so I cant realistically see that being a problem.

I have spoken again to the buyer or the vehicle, and he said that both of us counted it, and no way was it wrong. I am convinced it was correct, as does SWMBO.

So after a lot of thought, I think I will report after all. 

Thanks to all those who replied for your input. 

[steve b]

Good luck with it , there have been some very valid points raised in this discussion , I hope you have a successful resolution to this .

Steve

[Escape]

As above, you should report it, even if there is little chance of you ever getting the £100 back. You just can't let her get away with it and from your story there is definitely something wrong.

As for receiving payments in cash, I had actually hoped to get cash when I sold the Discovery2 earlier this year instead of a transfer. I think these days it's harder to counterfeit bank notes than it is to fake an electronic proof of payment. You know how it goes, someone comes to see the car, you reach a deal, you draft the contract while the buyer transfers the money and than shows you the proof on his phone. He wants to drive the car home and you want to get rid of it, so it's tempting not to wait until you actually see the money in your account...

Of course there are other security concerns when having a lot of cash. Some years ago, a mate got a large payment in cash for some work he'd done. On a Friday I think. He took it straight to the bank, but on his bike instead of taking the car. So less evidence of him leaving home. That same weekend his house was broken into. But not much taken as there was no easy loot... Could be a coincidence,  but it certainly didn't seem like it!

Filip

[sean f]

I am sure I remember a thread several year ago about the best way to take or making payment for big sums from /to people you don't know (may not have been on here).

From memory one of the best methods was cash BUT paid over inside the bank and paid directly into your account with the other person still present, protects both sides, all banks have extensive CCTV systems so any one dodgy is unlikely to want to go in. Buyer and seller are in a fairly secure environment and neither side gets access to the other parties bank details. 

One of the concerns covered (not relevant in this case) was if you are going to pay cash and arrange to meet some one there is a chance they might be a bit late but a couple of other people do turn up.....

Finding a bank that is still open in the present time could be more difficult though!.

[Simon_CSK]

On 7/20/2021 at 11:31 PM, Steve King said:

As an aside I now insist that large amounts of cash are paid in at the bank by the person purchasing from me!

I don't think the banks will allow that anymore because of money laundering. I know for sure my banks don't allow it.

[missingsid]

On 7/21/2021 at 7:10 PM, pete3000 said:

The only other thought is the notes were lighter (worn down) or wrong paper (counterfeit). So maybe don't look too close?. Just a thought.

WTF?

So if it was counterfeit just pass it on to some other sucker!!!

[pete3000]

i.e when paid in at the bank..... they could refuse to take the lot....then indeed what is your other option?

 

Pete