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TD 5 "Misfire"


TD5Spain
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Okay so Winch sorted thank guys.....

Smoking now not so bad but still a bit smokey, done all the suggested things..... Chamged air flow meter, cleaned EGR, drained filter, drained fuel and refreshed, kicked tyres, booted rear x member etc... etc...

But now the bloody thing is "misfiring"

Grreat on initial acceleration, but when it getb the revs up it stutters and feels like it is missing......

Still no ECU (Ba***rd thing) recorded faults.....

Any ideas please?

Please please?

Cheers

TD5Spain

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Change the wiring harness to the injectors. It's an easy DIY job, just pop the rocker cover off (about 84 bolts) unplug the harness where it goes in to the head, unplug all 5 injectors, remove, dump, refit is the reverse of removal :) also worth hosing out the inside of the plug on the wiring loom with electrical contact cleaner spray, and do the same to the 2 plugs that go into the ECU, you may find oil in one of those so clean it out and if possible blow with an airline.

Usual symptoms of this problem which affects all Td5s sooner or later is that it will be OK when cold but will gradually start to misfire as it warms up then after about 10 miles will be running like a bag of bolts, switch off and leave to cool and it will be OK. Harness is about £40 and definitely not worth paying somebody to change it.

If that doesn't cure it, an injector is a possibility (electrical failure and I have seen a broken spring) but you want to plug it in to a diagnostic computer before you spend any more, and see what cylinder is misfiring. Could also be head gasket etc I suppose but I'd start with the injector harness.

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Change the wiring harness to the injectors. It's an easy DIY job, just pop the rocker cover off (about 84 bolts) unplug the harness where it goes in to the head, unplug all 5 injectors, remove, dump, refit is the reverse of removal :) also worth hosing out the inside of the plug on the wiring loom with electrical contact cleaner spray, and do the same to the 2 plugs that go into the ECU, you may find oil in one of those so clean it out and if possible blow with an airline.

Usual symptoms of this problem which affects all Td5s sooner or later is that it will be OK when cold but will gradually start to misfire as it warms up then after about 10 miles will be running like a bag of bolts, switch off and leave to cool and it will be OK. Harness is about £40 and definitely not worth paying somebody to change it.

If that doesn't cure it, an injector is a possibility (electrical failure and I have seen a broken spring) but you want to plug it in to a diagnostic computer before you spend any more, and see what cylinder is misfiring. Could also be head gasket etc I suppose but I'd start with the injector harness.

A good place to start, but I will re check the fuel first as this all started fter the fill up at a didgy garage........

Actually I have found 2 wires unconnected at the injectors! They are only on cylinders 1 & 2 is this normal? do you know? thye are thin black protected wires with female plugs on but nothing there to connect too! Maybe these are yet another red herring from our Land rover factory one loom fits all theory!

I will check all the plugs and clean thenkyou and let you know the outcome...

Thanks again

Cheers

TD5Spain

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Yup, early ones were the worst but all can suffer the misfire problem even if there is no apparent sign of oil in the harness. I think the insulation breaks down over time, one of the great benefits of putting a little ickle fragile wiring harness inside something that is really hot and oily and vibrates a lot...

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is it misfire or just feel underpowered at higher revs? i went to down most of these roads with mine, misfire then as above for the harness, if it just feels lacking towards the top end (its actually above 2800rpm IIRC) then it could be the regulator in the fuel system. i believe it has a H and L pressure fuel feed system. normal driving just uses the Low Pressure system, brisker driving allows the regulator to add in the high Presure fuel. if the wagons not been used much at the brisker level the regulators have a tendancy to seize/pack up on the early models (mine is also a '99 one) the regulator was superceded at some point. the new regulator will fit your but make sure you get the gasket as well, about £70 total for parts, easy to DIT fit.

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Okay well thanks all and still the saga continues......................

Now it does not appear to be a "misfire"but shortage of power/fuel when revving under load. Whn stationary and revving it revs freely, as soon as you get on the road and the revs get high then it feels like a misfire but is more a hold back from the true acceleration.

I have run yet another diagnostic test and all it comes up with is a "Driver demand Fault" Anyone know what this is? The garage doesn't!

I have changed the fuel filter again and still have problems. Is the pump able to be cleaned flushed?

Where do I find the fuel regulator? Is it servicable or just straight swop?

A diesel " specialist" ha ha.... said I have to renew all the injectors as they are not cleanable is this correct can they be cleaned or just thrown away?

Just to put the LR garages here in perspective I have been to 2 main dealers to source the following simple parts:-

Brake pad retaining pin, casement nut for soundproofing over engine, grease nipples for propshafts, fuel filter, brake disks, rear door stay.....

And guess what they have NONE of these items in stock.... a bloody grease nipple for goodness sake.

Anyway if you can help me further please advise, this problem is taking the fun out of it.

Cheers

TD5Spain :angry::angry::angry:

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Unplug the air flow meter and try that..

Failing that remove the plugs at the ecu and check all wires are tight in the plug?

Then check for corrosion on the pins?

The fuel manifold could cause this problem IF it is leaking or if it's pipes are connected incorrectly (Only applicable if recently removed)

I have had one recently that has resisted all efforts to clear a misfire until we replaced the entire engine harness ( very unusual)

But, stick to the easy bits and do not try to over complicate your diagnoisis.

As for the fault code shown, what computor are you using? T4, Rovacom or something else as this unbelievable makes a difference.

Also when you first connected to the computor did you only get one fault???

This is also strange, i would expect to see more, please post other faults if it showed any

Hope this helps

Jim :)

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Unplug the air flow meter and try that..

Failing that remove the plugs at the ecu and check all wires are tight in the plug? GOOD STARTING POINT FOR TOMORROW

Then check for corrosion on the pins?

The fuel manifold could cause this problem IF it is leaking or if it's pipes are connected incorrectly (Only applicable if recently removed) I HAVE LEARNED TODAY THAT THIS IS A NEW ENGINE IN 2004!!!! APPARENTLY THE OLD ONE HAD EARLY TD5 SYNDROME!

I have had one recently that has resisted all efforts to clear a misfire until we replaced the entire engine harness ( very unusual) OUCH SOUND COSTLY

But, stick to the easy bits and do not try to over complicate your diagnoisis.

As for the fault code shown, what computor are you using? T4, Rovacom or something else as this unbelievable makes a difference. A T4 I THINK IS THIS THE SNAP ON ONE?

Also when you first connected to the computor did you only get one fault???

This is also strange, i would expect to see more, please post other faults if it showed any NO I GOT A FEW :- TuRBO OVER BOOST WHICH CLEARED AND DIDNT COME BACK - TACHOGRAPH OPEN LOOP BLAH BLAH - AIRFLOW METER (BUT NOW NEW ONE REPLACED OLD ONE) - AND ONE OR TWO OTHERS BUT THEY HAD ALL CLEARED UNTIL THIS NEW ONE TODAY- "DRIVER DEMAND FAULT"

Tomorrows tasks are try and find drain plate on side of Bosch pump... Drain tank and flush... locate and check fuel regulator... clean and inspect ECU connectors... light blue touch paper and stand well back... tee hee

I will keep you informed Thanks Jim

Cheers

TD5Spain

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Driver demand = throttle potentiometer fault

Have seen a couple of dud ones so try and borrow a good one and try it. There are two different types, 2 track and 3 track, your vehicle will need a 2 track one I expect

From what you just posted about the lack of power/misfire at high load it sounds like a fuel pump fault to me, the pump is struggling to keep the fuel rail pressure up. Usually when this happens they top out at about 3500rpm no-load and struggle to get up hills and yes it makes them misfire. Fuel pumps on a Td5 are "consumables" some last as little as 2 yrs! depends on how clean the fuel is

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Been there, done this & got the T shirt.

Ive got two TD5's and both have had the misfire problem, it was simply the little gubins on the wotsit that counts the flywheel revs, can't remember what they call it but i've got one in the workshop and will go and get the part number later. Takes about ten mins to fit, just need a screw driver.

One other thing that you perhaps should be aware off is, the breather for the fuel tank (what a cr*p place to put a fuel tank, why didnt they put the ECU some where higher and leave the tank where it was, US market I guess) can take in water instead of air if you are deep wading. It needs to be higher.

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Driver demand = throttle potentiometer fault - WHERE DO I FIND THIS???

Have seen a couple of dud ones so try and borrow a good one and try it. There are two different types, 2 track and 3 track, your vehicle will need a 2 track one I expect

From what you just posted about the lack of power/misfire at high load it sounds like a fuel pump fault to me, the pump is struggling to keep the fuel rail pressure up. Usually when this happens they top out at about 3500rpm no-load and struggle to get up hills and yes it makes them misfire. Fuel pumps on a Td5 are "consumables" some last as little as 2 yrs! depends on how clean the fuel is WHERE IS THE PUMP, I DONT HAVE A MANUAL AND AM WORKING BLIND,NEVER HAD TD5 BEFORE........ HASNT GOT THE NORMAL SORT OF PUMP EH!

Okay so I have now checked and cleaned the ECU plugs and tried the "new" air folow meter disconnected and basically ben through the majority of the system and cleaned contacts etc etc...

Okay there is a plug connector on the engine side of the inlet manifold...What Is it do you know?......I took it out and cleaned it, it was well sooted up but what should it look like? mine has one "prong" and a hole to a "sensor, it looks to me like there is piece missing!

Anyway how is it running...... still missing on high revs and smoking badly.. white smoke that smells like parafin! and then black smoke and boy can it smoke....

it pulls really well from start off and then judders as the speed and revs increase.

When it starts cold it is sluggish and lethargic to say the least but if I rev it, it clears and starts as above. IT starts easily from cold or hot.

I have contacted local LR dealer and they just say they will look at it min 2 hours €100........ Local Auto diesel centre just went oooohhhhhh oooooohhhhh difficult these you know...Yes I bloody well know that. I was recommended a local repair centre but when I spoke to them they knew very little about TD5's having only ever worked on Santanas.

Before I give up and leave it to the hands of the unclean I hope someone has some more ideas please...? I am quite good normally, but thois has flumaxed me.

Cheers

TD5Spain

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Bob,

ddint for mine! changed that along with cleaning off the other one in the inlet decribed above and didnt change anything, mine was the fuel regulator, but i didnt have the black or white smoke issues.

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Yes, agree, but he seems to have done every thing else. It will be interesting to know what the solution is, if he finds it?.

Okay update....................

MAF airflow meter changed for new one.............okay

fuel filter changed and new one chekced and .....okay

throttle potentiometer ......................................okay

ECU plugs .......................................................okay

flywheel sensor ................................................okay

fuel in tank.......................................................okay

EGR cleaned and sensors plug ...........................okay--------- I WILL be blanking this off.

vacumn actuator on top of turbo cleaned.............okay

air filter new.....................................................okay

injector wiring loom...........................................okay

All vacumn hoses blown through.........................okay

All visisble sensor leads cleaned and replaced......okay

Oil clean and coolant clean (not head gasket!)......okay

So all that is left is the tyre pressures!!!!!!!!

NO seriously the only thing I have not done is the Fuel Pump ........ How do I get to it and remove it to clean and replace if necessary....? THE BILL IS ADDING UP

Thanks for all your help up till now everyone.

Cheers

TD5Spain

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under the fuel cooler on the side of the block, would take a piccy of it but digi camera is broken and even it it dod work its hailing here! Its the bit with the fuel pipes going in, does what my post says^^^^^^

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under the fuel cooler on the side of the block, would take a piccy of it but digi camera is broken and even it it dod work its hailing here! Its the bit with the fuel pipes going in, does what my post says^^^^^^

Okay I am going out too have alook at Rugby half time.....

Sorry about the Hail it is glorious here and very warm for January I'll try and send some over!

Will let you know.

Cheers

TD5Spain

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Anyway how is it running...... still missing on high revs and smoking badly.. white smoke that smells like parafin! and then black smoke and boy can it smoke....

thinking more about it just now, i don't think it can be a fuel delivery problem as you say its smoking badly and the smoke is black, so surely its getting enough fuel but not enough air? assuming that the turbo is OK and the intercooler pipes are all fitted correctly and not split/cracked try looking at the air intake. i am aware of some td5s that were loosing power around 3750rpm and it was due to a split in the filter to turbo intake pipe. This split is closed most of the time and only opens up as the engine rocks over on the mounts at the higher rpm. try getting someone to rev the engine whilst you look under the bonnet (prob best stationary!) have you tried it with a new air filter or without a filter in?

Sorry i know you but it down to misfire at the start, just thinking through the probs.

editied to add i think there must be another problem which is giving you the white smoke or something is seriously wrong.

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