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2008 Spectre Build


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Hello!

I'm going to be building a Spectre 110 over the next couple of months. 

Base vehicle is a really nice 2008 110 XS.

First - Suspension, lift etc... I've read they lifted them 4" but can't seem to find a 4" lift kit anywhere???

Will be purchasing wheels, tyres, suspension setup first. Week after next I'll be looking at roll cage, front bumper, winch etc.

Any comments welcomed. 

Cheers folks 👍

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Have fun and be safe.

Whitbread love to make one off roll cages so you could give them a call.

Hope to see loads of pictures

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3 minutes ago, Arjan said:

Have fun and be safe.

Whitbread love to make one off roll cages so you could give them a call.

Hope to see loads of pictures

Thanks buddy. Photos of donor vehicle will be added soon 😁

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1 hour ago, ThreePointFive said:

Have you done a price-up of the build?

I would think a 4" lift kit will seriously compromise on-road handling but assume you don't really care too much about that. Good luck with it, won't be to everyone's taste but nothing ever is.

I've done some rough costs but not knowing where to source some parts as of yet is making it more difficult.

Plus, going down the LS2 route once I've got the above done. Got engine and box sat on a pallet from another project.

Not massively worried about costs!

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8 hours ago, Trendkill110 said:

I've done some rough costs but not knowing where to source some parts as of yet is making it more difficult.

Plus, going down the LS2 route once I've got the above done. Got engine and box sat on a pallet from another project.

Not massively worried about costs!

What a great position to be in!

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9 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

Have you done a price-up of the build?

Good luck with it, won't be to everyone's taste but nothing ever is.

Had a quick look and I like the proportions, a bit Iselandic but I like them too. Let's face it you can't say that an Icelandic lifted LR is not capable or focused!

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1 hour ago, miketomcat said:

Would it not make more sense to fit the engine and gearbox before the other mods, given that you'll probably need the wings off to fit the engine. Sounds like a good project though 

Mike

That'll be something for the winter months. Still need to source loads of bits for that conversion. I have a complete engine, Harrop H122 charger & tremec T56 manual box I removed from a VXR8 a year or two back...

Only 90% on sticking it in the 110. Always fancied putting it in the 90 which is very much still in project state 😆

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53 minutes ago, miketomcat said:

You need to understand there are several on here that are excessively sarcastic myself included. Fridge is also one and he was taking the Micky. I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.

Mike

Spoilsport.....regards Stephen 

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On 9/1/2021 at 4:15 PM, miketomcat said:

I used to have a tomcat.

And a 90, 110 and now an ibex. 😁

Mike

By coincidence, the wheelarch eyebrows on the Spectre 110's were made / supplied by Bowler.  I might have a tiny bit of inside knowledge ;)

Also, it's perfectly possible to set up a vehicle to have decent handling with a 4" lift.  Maybe not with the kind of kits you see advertised though. 

The simplest option is just to lower the shocks and put 4" packers under/over the springs - then add anti-roll bars to limit the sway.  Since I suspect you are lust looking for a lift, rather than longer travel / more articulation - that's the route I would take.  Adjust the stiffness of the front / rear anti roll to tune the amount of under / oversteer you feel comfortable with.  Some of the after market Jeep sway bars are adjustable and could be made to fit.

Si

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4 hours ago, simonr said:

By coincidence, the wheelarch eyebrows on the Spectre 110's were made / supplied by Bowler.  I might have a tiny bit of inside knowledge ;)

Also, it's perfectly possible to set up a vehicle to have decent handling with a 4" lift.  Maybe not with the kind of kits you see advertised though. 

The simplest option is just to lower the shocks and put 4" packers under/over the springs - then add anti-roll bars to limit the sway.  Since I suspect you are lust looking for a lift, rather than longer travel / more articulation - that's the route I would take.  Adjust the stiffness of the front / rear anti roll to tune the amount of under / oversteer you feel comfortable with.  Some of the after market Jeep sway bars are adjustable and could be made to fit.

Si

Si - Already spoken to Bowler regarding the arches and they still supply them so waiting now on a price.

With this build I'm not bothered about articulation so was thinking of a decent +2" lift with +2" packers under the springs and keeping the anti roll bars / extending the bump stops, brake lines, wide angle props and corrected radius and trailing arms.

Out of curiosity with the above setup mentioned, do you have any suggestions? How would you be going about it if you were to take on a project with this desired outcome?

Regards

Bob 👍🏻

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The problem is where to find a "decent" +2" Lift.  The lift kits you can buy, generally concentrate on articulation rather than dynamic handling.

I would probably go to someone like Milners (or Bowler) and discuss the requirements with them.  They specialise in racing - so their advice tends to be biassed toward handling rather than off roading.

Personally, I would start with the simplest setup you can, ideally using the stock springs & dampers (which tend to be set up as a reasonable compromise).  Then change only one thing at a time.  See how you like it & how it affects the handling etc.  If it's better - keep it.  If not, bin it.  If you change more than one thing, you don't know which gave an improvement or reduction.

I would find / adapt / make some adjustable anti-roll bars though.  The stock bars on a defender are designed to allow enough articulation for off roading so are fairly weak as bars go.  If you raise the vehicle, they need to be stiffer.  Making them adjustable from the outset makes sense.

Si

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14 hours ago, Trendkill110 said:

With this build I'm not bothered about articulation

Aw, boo. 
I really like the look of the spectre ones but if you're not going to invest in the suspension properly and money isn't an issue then I would have to ask if you were comfortable with a vanity project without any real substance? I know that sounds harsh but let me explain. In addition or to expand on what Simon says above which I agree with every word:

Firstly if you don't allow for articulation, when you do go off road single wheel movements will be translated into the chassis with massive amounts of body roll and movement instead of the wheel moving and the energy being absorbed by the springs, antiroll bars and dampers, likewise handling on the road would be compromised too. A good well designed antiroll bar will be much stiffer, have longer arms and be able to absorb a lot more energy to release into the dampers than anything from a standard vehicle. All off road motorsports that have any pace at all about them use antiroll bars. If you're not building a rock crawler, trials or winch challenge vehicle then well set up antiroll bars will be on your shopping list. They definitely limit articulation but with a bit more speed the wheel will still move and follow the ground as the antiroll bar absorbs then releases energy like a spring.

Secondly, the caster angle of the front axle and the pinion angle both need addressed. You can fling a 2" lift on without worrying about it and I know another 2" doesn't seem much but 4" is all of the droop travel from the standard setup used already. The castor 100% needs fixed if you're going to enjoy spirited driving with the LS fitted (I think fitting your LS to the 110 is a wonderful idea, the 90's too short to enjoy it unless you put longer rear arms on in my opinion). 

Thirdly, the anti dive  / anti squat characteristics of the short radius and trailing arms is also not ideal. I would strongly suggest that you speak to someone about solutions to that too. In addition to the suggestions above, Gwyn Lewis may well have a solution, you posted a link from 4x4 fabrications, Dave could definitely sort you out or there's some young lads who used to frequent this forum called Blackbird industries or even some of the ultra4 or winch challenge guys that also might do a bit of bespoke work and genuinely know what they're talking about. My suggestion would be for longer caster corrected front arms, notch out and strengthen the bit of outrigger that fouls, and longer stronger lower arms on the rear maybe leaving the A frame alone but set the pinion to the new ride height and you won't have any vibrations from bad driveline angles trying to wreck everything.

Fourthly, the damper locations and length. If you add 4" to the downward travel of the damper, the top also has to move up at least 4" to account for the new longer damper, that means you need a damper with a lot more stroke plus a bit more to allow for articulation. You also need someone to talk you through the effects of different setups and stiffnesses.

Fifthly, Spring length and rate, if you use the standard turret locations then a spring that gives 4" more ride height will either be too stiff or become coil bound on articulation. This is why all the lads running 14" of travel are using coilovers and have the top mounts almost level with the wings. I think coilovers are worth you looking at. 

Sixthly, bump stops, for a road or high speed biased car you'll want your bump stops sorted too, a couple of lumps of hard rubber aren't going to work for you. To assist the antiroll bars and as part of how the whole suspension works with longer travel you need a way to start to resist large bump movements. Hydraulic bump stops are easily available now and aren't difficult to fit.

Seven, if you're running the 37' tyres then definitely some brake and axle upgrades!!

I hope there's some food for thought there. Maybe air is an option that when you want the higher stance then you just lift it up and for high speed LS fun you drop it down without any drastic suspension mods at all? That would definitely be the easiest route I think. Mind your longer brake lines too and don't forget to have fun and enjoy the build!!

Edited by Jamie_grieve
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8 hours ago, Jamie_grieve said:

Aw, boo. 
I really like the look of the spectre ones but if you're not going to invest in the suspension properly and money isn't an issue then I would have to ask if you were comfortable with a vanity project without any real substance? I know that sounds harsh but let me explain. In addition or to expand on what Simon says above which I agree with every word:

Firstly if you don't allow for articulation, when you do go off road single wheel movements will be translated into the chassis with massive amounts of body roll and movement instead of the wheel moving and the energy being absorbed by the springs, antiroll bars and dampers, likewise handling on the road would be compromised too. A good well designed antiroll bar will be much stiffer, have longer arms and be able to absorb a lot more energy to release into the dampers than anything from a standard vehicle. All off road motorsports that have any pace at all about them use antiroll bars. If you're not building a rock crawler, trials or winch challenge vehicle then well set up antiroll bars will be on your shopping list. They definitely limit articulation but with a bit more speed the wheel will still move and follow the ground as the antiroll bar absorbs then releases energy like a spring.

Secondly, the caster angle of the front axle and the pinion angle both need addressed. You can fling a 2" lift on without worrying about it and I know another 2" doesn't seem much but 4" is all of the droop travel from the standard setup used already. The castor 100% needs fixed if you're going to enjoy spirited driving with the LS fitted (I think fitting your LS to the 110 is a wonderful idea, the 90's too short to enjoy it unless you put longer rear arms on in my opinion). 

Thirdly, the anti dive  / anti squat characteristics of the short radius and trailing arms is also not ideal. I would strongly suggest that you speak to someone about solutions to that too. In addition to the suggestions above, Gwyn Lewis may well have a solution, you posted a link from 4x4 fabrications, Dave could definitely sort you out or there's some young lads who used to frequent this forum called Blackbird industries or even some of the ultra4 or winch challenge guys that also might do a bit of bespoke work and genuinely know what they're talking about. My suggestion would be for longer caster corrected front arms, notch out and strengthen the bit of outrigger that fouls, and longer stronger lower arms on the rear maybe leaving the A frame alone but set the pinion to the new ride height and you won't have any vibrations from bad driveline angles trying to wreck everything.

Fourthly, the damper locations and length. If you add 4" to the downward travel of the damper, the top also has to move up at least 4" to account for the new longer damper, that means you need a damper with a lot more stroke plus a bit more to allow for articulation. You also need someone to talk you through the effects of different setups and stiffnesses.

Fifthly, Spring length and rate, if you use the standard turret locations then a spring that gives 4" more ride height will either be too stiff or become coil bound on articulation. This is why all the lads running 14" of travel are using coilovers and have the top mounts almost level with the wings. I think coilovers are worth you looking at. 

Sixthly, bump stops, for a road or high speed biased car you'll want your bump stops sorted too, a couple of lumps of hard rubber aren't going to work for you. To assist the antiroll bars and as part of how the whole suspension works with longer travel you need a way to start to resist large bump movements. Hydraulic bump stops are easily available now and aren't difficult to fit.

Seven, if you're running the 37' tyres then definitely some brake and axle upgrades!!

I hope there's some food for thought there. Maybe air is an option that when you want the higher stance then you just lift it up and for high speed LS fun you drop it down without any drastic suspension mods at all? That would definitely be the easiest route I think. Mind your longer brake lines too and don't forget to have fun and enjoy the build!!

All the above is really helpful - Thank you for taking the time to type it all up.

Food for thought! I shall be making some phone calls / sending some emails this week to get a better grasp of things.

Cheers dude 👍🏻

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On 9/5/2021 at 8:19 PM, Trendkill110 said:

All the above is really helpful - Thank you for taking the time to type it all up.

Food for thought! I shall be making some phone calls / sending some emails this week to get a better grasp of things.

Cheers dude 👍🏻

 

On 9/5/2021 at 11:33 AM, Jamie_grieve said:

Aw, boo. 
I really like the look of the spectre ones but if you're not going to invest in the suspension properly and money isn't an issue then I would have to ask if you were comfortable with a vanity project without any real substance? I know that sounds harsh but let me explain. In addition or to expand on what Simon says above which I agree with every word:

Firstly if you don't allow for articulation, when you do go off road single wheel movements will be translated into the chassis with massive amounts of body roll and movement instead of the wheel moving and the energy being absorbed by the springs, antiroll bars and dampers, likewise handling on the road would be compromised too. A good well designed antiroll bar will be much stiffer, have longer arms and be able to absorb a lot more energy to release into the dampers than anything from a standard vehicle. All off road motorsports that have any pace at all about them use antiroll bars. If you're not building a rock crawler, trials or winch challenge vehicle then well set up antiroll bars will be on your shopping list. They definitely limit articulation but with a bit more speed the wheel will still move and follow the ground as the antiroll bar absorbs then releases energy like a spring.

Secondly, the caster angle of the front axle and the pinion angle both need addressed. You can fling a 2" lift on without worrying about it and I know another 2" doesn't seem much but 4" is all of the droop travel from the standard setup used already. The castor 100% needs fixed if you're going to enjoy spirited driving with the LS fitted (I think fitting your LS to the 110 is a wonderful idea, the 90's too short to enjoy it unless you put longer rear arms on in my opinion). 

Thirdly, the anti dive  / anti squat characteristics of the short radius and trailing arms is also not ideal. I would strongly suggest that you speak to someone about solutions to that too. In addition to the suggestions above, Gwyn Lewis may well have a solution, you posted a link from 4x4 fabrications, Dave could definitely sort you out or there's some young lads who used to frequent this forum called Blackbird industries or even some of the ultra4 or winch challenge guys that also might do a bit of bespoke work and genuinely know what they're talking about. My suggestion would be for longer caster corrected front arms, notch out and strengthen the bit of outrigger that fouls, and longer stronger lower arms on the rear maybe leaving the A frame alone but set the pinion to the new ride height and you won't have any vibrations from bad driveline angles trying to wreck everything.

Fourthly, the damper locations and length. If you add 4" to the downward travel of the damper, the top also has to move up at least 4" to account for the new longer damper, that means you need a damper with a lot more stroke plus a bit more to allow for articulation. You also need someone to talk you through the effects of different setups and stiffnesses.

Fifthly, Spring length and rate, if you use the standard turret locations then a spring that gives 4" more ride height will either be too stiff or become coil bound on articulation. This is why all the lads running 14" of travel are using coilovers and have the top mounts almost level with the wings. I think coilovers are worth you looking at. 

Sixthly, bump stops, for a road or high speed biased car you'll want your bump stops sorted too, a couple of lumps of hard rubber aren't going to work for you. To assist the antiroll bars and as part of how the whole suspension works with longer travel you need a way to start to resist large bump movements. Hydraulic bump stops are easily available now and aren't difficult to fit.

Seven, if you're running the 37' tyres then definitely some brake and axle upgrades!!

I hope there's some food for thought there. Maybe air is an option that when you want the higher stance then you just lift it up and for high speed LS fun you drop it down without any drastic suspension mods at all? That would definitely be the easiest route I think. Mind your longer brake lines too and don't forget to have fun and enjoy the build!!

Jesus, ive just learned so much and thank god i only did 2” lift instead of 4”

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