Nonimouse Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 On 2/18/2022 at 6:20 PM, Peaklander said: Here's another recent one. Apparently "a novice" who has received a police warning and told his vehicle will be seized next time. It was reported that he had to plead with the farmer to tow him out. I know the farmer and it won't have been an easy conversation. Looks like that lane gets misused a lot.. Is there no winter tro on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 There hasn't been until now. It has been closed for six months from 17th Feb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, Peaklander said: There hasn't been until now. It has been closed for six months from 17th Feb. Typical, completly the wrong time of the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 46 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: Looks like that lane gets misused a lot.. Is there no winter tro on it? Yes, Often. There is one in place now, by Sheffield City Council. Trailwise 2 ID SK2288-02 The comments on the TW2 page show it was 'impassable' '2 months ago'. Street map view Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 2 hours ago, David Sparkes said: Yes, Often. There is one in place now, by Sheffield City Council. Trailwise 2 ID SK2288-02 The comments on the TW2 page show it was 'impassable' '2 months ago'. Street map view Regards. I don't have access to TW2 anymore and I still believe it was oneof the most stupid things GLASS ever did - simply to build up revenue. IS the SCC TRO signposted at either end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 This is at one end. SCC chained the gate and gave a key to the farmer I'm told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 14 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: I don't have access to TW2 anymore and I still believe it was one of the most stupid things GLASS ever did - simply to build up revenue. IS the SCC TRO signposted at either end? Two points, TW2 has 'built up revenue' for GLASS, but that is because membership has increased, with the result that GLASS has become more powerful overall. Also the additional revenue has increased the opportunity to employ 'specialists' be they in computing, legal services, or Rights of Way officers. The ROW officers are often ex local council people and are able to speak the same language as serving council officials. Having seen some of the resultant correspondence I can see that 'speaking the same language' is a tremendous help in resolving problem areas. I'm not privy to exact numbers, but GLASS membership has increased about 4 fold, and is still increasing, compared to when the TW project was initiated. At that time membership was falling, so TW and TW2 has meant the survival of the organisation. I couldn't have answered the point about TRO signposting, so am glad to see Peaklander has picked up that point. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 45 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: I don't have access to TW2 anymore and I still believe it was oneof the most stupid things GLASS ever did - simply to build up revenue. I presume you say this because it has provided information to the 'masses' on lanes that can be driven and as a result a careless minority have caused problems? From a personal point of view, without TW2 as a starting point I have found the task of researching the legality of lanes to be such a hassle I have just given up with green laneing altogether, TW2 gives a decent start point to plan routes and importantly write of lanes that you know to be undrivable as blocked/TRO/damaged etc which means I have driven some lanes in the last couple of years that I would not have done otherwise 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, David Sparkes said: Yes, Often. There is one in place now, by Sheffield City Council. David I think you are mistaken. I’m told that it has only been closed once in living memory. However it isn’t me remembering so I can’t be sure! Edited February 22, 2022 by Peaklander Added para. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 37 minutes ago, Peaklander said: David I think you are mistaken. I’m told that it has only been closed once in living memory. However it isn’t me remembering so I can’t be sure! My understanding is that Sheffield City Council preferred management technique is to level & reseed every year. It will take me a little time to find details of what happened over the last 5 years (say). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 16 hours ago, L19MUD said: I presume you say this because it has provided information to the 'masses' on lanes that can be driven and as a result a careless minority have caused problems? From a personal point of view, without TW2 as a starting point I have found the task of researching the legality of lanes to be such a hassle I have just given up with green laneing altogether, TW2 gives a decent start point to plan routes and importantly write of lanes that you know to be undrivable as blocked/TRO/damaged etc which means I have driven some lanes in the last couple of years that I would not have done otherwise The big issue with it was that for under 50 quid no one needed to do the work they had had to previously, So yes, great for people who didn't have the time' but it's opened up laning to the irresponsable masses. Since TW2 came, out incidents of lane damage have increased tenfold. Many rural crimes officers put TW" at the top of the escalation of laning issues around the UK. It also turned GLASS into a wealthy organisation, with a commitee that was simply not ready for it. This then caused internal friction and a lot of good people left or simply resigned their posts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 13 hours ago, David Sparkes said: My understanding is that Sheffield City Council preferred management technique is to level & reseed every year. It will take me a little time to find details of what happened over the last 5 years (say). Levelling and reseeding will simply create a cyclic need for repairs. Actually fixing the problem would be better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 46 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: The big issue with it was that for under 50 quid no one needed to do the work they had had to previously, So yes, great for people who didn't have the time' but it's opened up laning to the irresponsable masses. Since TW2 came, out incidents of lane damage have increased tenfold. Many rural crimes officers put TW" at the top of the escalation of laning issues around the UK. It also turned GLASS into a wealthy organisation, with a commitee that was simply not ready for it. This then caused internal friction and a lot of good people left or simply resigned their posts. That is a shame. I have no knowledge of the internal politics of GLASS but would have thought that new found income could be used to educate users and help maintain the lanes? I feel it is a tricky balance, if something like TW2 did not exist then I think the use of lanes would continue to drop giving councils the argument that they are not being used and allow them to be downgraded to footpaths/bridleways. On the other hand if the usage is too much as a result of TW2 and damage is done either by recklessness or over use then they can also argue to stop the use of the lanes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 31 minutes ago, L19MUD said: That is a shame. I have no knowledge of the internal politics of GLASS but would have thought that new found income could be used to educate users and help maintain the lanes? I feel it is a tricky balance, if something like TW2 did not exist then I think the use of lanes would continue to drop giving councils the argument that they are not being used and allow them to be downgraded to footpaths/bridleways. On the other hand if the usage is too much as a result of TW2 and damage is done either by recklessness or over use then they can also argue to stop the use of the lanes. Membership was pretty steady before TW2, and as there were people happy to teach how to research lanes, it al worked well. Then membership more than doubled. We were finding that suddenly a huge number of social media groups were started by one or two people with access to TW2, who would then provide details to the members. VRO's became pointless, because there is no legal preotection. Honeypot lanes became trashed with over use. New commitee members came in, some with their own agenda, upsetting long term reps. Lack of man management skills upset more of the reps. Then tour guides got involved - easy to charge a small fortune for a guided trip. A large number of these tour guides proved to be less than professional... I resigned from my posts about this time - I'd had enough. I'm still the Chair of the Somerset LAF, but I'm resigning in October. Laning for me is no longer something I want to share. I go alone, when I feel like it. I won't use TW2 or the ATUK version. I research every lane I use, the old way. I also operate a lane recovery service - not like the plethora of untrained, uninsured folk on Facebook. But working with the local RCT. Laning has been destroyed by overuse, missuse and 'organised' tour guides. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Nonimouse said: Levelling and reseeding will simply create a cyclic need for repairs. Actually fixing the problem would be better The rest of the lane is a hard surface of rock, MOT and gravel. It mostly stands-up well. It's only that hill which is grass. I have no idea if somewhere underneath there is a hard track; it's long gone if there is. If everyone approached from the south then they would go down and it wouldn't cut-up. It starts / finishes at the bottom at the public tarmac and of course the challenge is go uphill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 10 hours ago, Nonimouse said: Laning has been destroyed by overuse, missuse and 'organised' tour guides. I couldn't agree with you more, however I believe the rot set in long before TW2. Magazines articles, forums/social media, the fashion for "extreme, challenge, action" vehicles, along with the business's that have made a tidy sum off the back of it, these have all played their part. Laning may well have taken a good beating, but it's not dead yet. 10 hours ago, Nonimouse said: I won't use TW2 or the ATUK version. I research every lane I use, the old way. I used to feel like that about GPS, "modern fangled nonsense for people that can't read a map", when actually it's just another tool to use that makes life easier. And as for research, I'd got to the point where I'd questioned myself as to what my hobby was, greenlaning or historical research, because I spent infinitely more time on the latter than I did driving. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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