PandaSpeedShop Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Hello everyone, as you may have seen from a different thread I am in the process of putting together a Discovery 2 to compete in Ladoga Trophy 2022. I will be competing in the adventure class - 33” tyres, 1 winch, minimal body and mechanical mods. The obvious stuff like air lockers, winch bumpers and mild suspension lifts are allowed. I am trying my best to put together something fairly bullet proof with the help and guidance from a few big names in the game. @Hybrid_From_Hellis building me some pretty special diffs and should be sharing the progress in here. Wil from Goodwinch has advised the TDS-12 winch and all the associated recovery equipment. Which has just turned up and I will be building a winch bumper to suit shortly. Winchester gears are building a stage 1 gearbox and stage 2 transfer case with an Ashcroft ATB diff and that is going to be paired to a LOF Extreme single mass clutch. I can safely say my credit card will get a good workout with all that lot, but hopefully it will result in a pretty well built disco. There will be lots of progress n the coming months and hopefully some interesting updates for you all. Feel free to follow @ladoga_disco or @panda_speed_shop for more in detail updates. I will leave you with a couple of pictures of the disco as it sits today. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Hi, great to see this happening. Are you keeping the LR4x4 thread updated please, as many of our members will be interested seeing you attempting this. Those links don't seem to work BTW. Are you changing the diff ratios while doing the diffs? The swamps are all about crawl ratio, I was running 4.75 with 35" tyres and a TDI engine. Daan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaSpeedShop Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 Hi, yes I will be keeping the thread updated as much as possible. The links to the profiles are https://instagram.com/ladoga_disco?utm_medium=copy_link and https://instagram.com/panda_speed_shop?utm_medium=copy_link The diff ratios are going to 3.75 to keep it fairly similar to stock on 33” tyres. I need to retain some road manners so I can’t go for crazy crawl ratios unfortunately. I have also been issued a race number, we will be crew number 604 😀 On the advice of the previous thread I have gone for insa turbo K2 tyres (trepador copies) in 285/65r16 which came up at exactly 32.8”. I was very surprised about this. Ended up going to the tyre shop with a tape measure as I was really worried about them being oversize. Sorry for the rubbish pictures, but I was very excited to pick them up and get them on a set of modulars. They went on surprisingly easily and took no effort to sit on the bead, which gives me some confidence in them staying on aired down. Now I have to get them on and work out if I need to do any cutting, really hope I can get away with no or minimal cutting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 Looking good; have you used soap to fit the tyres or dry? Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaSpeedShop Posted February 6, 2022 Author Share Posted February 6, 2022 I put them on with soap. Is that an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 21 hours ago, PandaSpeedShop said: I put them on with soap. Is that an issue? The lube properties for putting them on can be a hindrance when aired down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 I was just thinking about the tyre coming off when lowering pressures. Luckily there is about 3 months for it to dry. There is also the option of breaking the bead, apply Gorilla glue tot he beads and pump up again. This seemed to have worked for some people. Duct tape is another solution, like this: Easiest is inner tubes. I ran the croatia trophy with inner tubes at 5 PSI, without problems, but the tyres were fitted years before that without soap. As is, I would not go lower than 10 PSI. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaSpeedShop Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) Thanks for the information guys. Did not even consider tyre soap as causing a problem. I wonder how much they will actually flatten out when aired down, they seem super rigid on the side wall currently. Do they soften up with use at all? I guess being remoulds they aren’t the best performing tyre. Also slightly concerned about them not being aggressive enough, they shouldn’t dig down but they may be a bit lacking in bite for the muddy sections. I hope they self clear ok with a bit of throttle. The other issue I am worried about is the weight and size of the thing. Going to be a 300/400kg heavier than most I recon. It’s 2200kg as it sits right now. No crew, no spares and on smaller tyres. The 2 seats will be coming out of the 2nd row and I think I will be loosing all the carpet but she’s going to be a big heavy beast. Any idea on what yours weighed in at @Daan? Edited February 7, 2022 by PandaSpeedShop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 😀😀you don’t want to be asking Daan that question! Prepare to be disappointed and amazed in equal measure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaSpeedShop Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Have been watching lots of videos from Ladoga and the narrow ridge section looks tricky for bigger cars. Looks like a whole lot of smashed bodywork trying to squeeze a disco between the narrow trees at the top 😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 If you can't afford to trailer home a heap of scrap, I wouldn't go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaSpeedShop Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 17 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: If you can't afford to trailer home a heap of scrap, I wouldn't go. No trailer here, it’s getting driven there and back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, PandaSpeedShop said: No trailer here, it’s getting driven there and back. I sincerely hope you've joined the AA ............... Regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 1 hour ago, PandaSpeedShop said: Thanks for the information guys. Did not even consider tyre soap as causing a problem. I wonder how much they will actually flatten out when aired down, they seem super rigid on the side wall currently. Do they soften up with use at all? I guess being remoulds they aren’t the best performing tyre. Also slightly concerned about them not being aggressive enough, they shouldn’t dig down but they may be a bit lacking in bite for the muddy sections. I hope they self clear ok with a bit of throttle. The other issue I am worried about is the weight and size of the thing. Going to be a 300/400kg heavier than most I recon. It’s 2200kg as it sits right now. No crew, no spares and on smaller tyres. The 2 seats will be coming out of the 2nd row and I think I will be loosing all the carpet but she’s going to be a big heavy beast. Any idea on what yours weighed in at @Daan? I think you got the right thread (but then I would say that, as I suggested them). The stiffness could be an issue, them being remoulds, so try at 10 psi and 5 psi if you notice any difference. Weight: my car measured 1820 kg on the SVA test with all kit on it. For Ladoga, we had no back up crew, so we carried camping gear and spares ourselves. I'd say it was around 2 ton on the event. If you think that's good, the russians are very fanatic at this event and bring defenders that weigh 1600 kg only. But they are going for a position in either TR1 or TR2. I think you are doing the right thing and put your car in adventure, and it will be ok. Be very considerate as to what you take in terms of equipment etc. as it all adds to the weight. This video gives a pretty good idea of what your class looks like. That G-wagen is heavier than yours and sport simex pattern tyres that are rock solid: Still, they have plenty of fun! Daan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 21 minutes ago, Daan said: Weight: my car measured 1820 kg on the SVA test with all kit on it. Damn, think that's about where my unsprung weight is sitting at, at the moment lol Regards Stephen 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Those tyres will be fine in adventure the route isn't the same as tr3 up, a large portion is but several of the more tricky bits are skipped. Don't worry there's still plenty to keep you occupied. We did air down to about 15psi with no form of "stick" on the bead. Yes we punched tyres off but normally only one on a stage, one stage we did three but if you can't put it back on you shouldn't be going. We had European breakdown cover but you still need to get out of Russia don't you daan. There were several trucks in one of the classes with families in including kids. Dirtydiesel did it in a range rover, the Belgians I think took too. Dan and Jen took a camel 110! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Bowie69 said: If you can't afford to trailer home a heap of scrap, I wouldn't go. 2 hours ago, PandaSpeedShop said: No trailer here, it’s getting driven there and back. 2 hours ago, Stellaghost said: I sincerely hope you've joined the AA ............... Regards Stephen A couple of point here: -ignore Bowie 69; if you think like that you will never go! -I did drive it to Russia, had a slight issue with the alternator seizing up 1 mile before Harwich. We made it to the ferry (shoe lace to water pump). Then attempted to fit my spare at the docks in Hoek van Holland. Unsuccessful, as it did not fit. I got a new alternator at my old parts place in Holland (was there last time 10 years earlier, but they still recognised me). The event had its problems, with a fan loosing all its fins. We replaced this with a Lada fan which we found in this Russian parts place (Fridgefreezer can tell you the address and link a video). On day 6 we broke a cambelt on a road section due to the cam chest full of well, swamp basically. We fixed this in camp that evening. We finished a better than expected 6th place. Now we only needed to drive home. All was well until we saw the oil light flickering slightly. We investigated and concluded that there is oil pressure and therefore the switch was faulty. Unfortunately, as these things go, this was the wrong diagnosis; There was oil pressure, but the oil volume at higher RPM was not enough. This was caused by a microwave sized rock that hat clouted the sump on one of the stages where we had to traverse and are full off these massive rocks. The dent in the sump blocked the strainer on the oil pump and therefore reduced oil flow. This is something to consider for the TD5 as well, as this has an aluminium sump, rather than a steel sump like the tdi. The failure happened 50 miles before the Russian border and presented itself with some very expensive noises coming out of the engine, which was no3 big end bearing. Dan and Jen (in the camel 110) kindly towed me out of Russia to our stay over place near Helsinki. From here I got my AA European breakdown cover involved who did recover the car and delivered it to my home 3 weeks later. So, yes AA membership is advisable, but it is no good in Russia, as Russia is not in Europe. So, there you have it, it is all perfectly possible, but there are always unexpected things happening and then it comes to how you adapt and overcome problems. One of the best events out there, and as they say, you only regret the things you did not do. Daan 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 23 minutes ago, Daan said: -ignore Bowie 69; if you think like that you will never go! Well, that told me 😛 Truthfully, there is the possibility of not having at a truck at the end, but then there is if you drive to Wales for a bit of laning, everything is a risk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 I accepted the risk that I might be coming with a scrap truck. Dirtydiesel did scrap his range rover after the event. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaSpeedShop Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Yeah I agree with Daan! If you are super negative you will never do anything. I have driven a 1973 gaz from Russia no problem and have driven there and back in a 1999 Bora. Also years of driving a track and drift car to events teaches you some good field fixes 😂. I am accepting that I might come back with a crumpled beer can of a disco and make it into a challenge truck when I return. The TD5 is a little more fragile than a tdi which is a worry. What do you recommend for waterproofing? I have got an ECU relocation loom but there are still the SLABS and BCU in the passenger footwell. I am thinking cut all the wires and extend to put them on the roof. The fuse box in the engine bay is delicate and so is the one under the steering column. They will be trickier to relocate. Or am I worrying for no reason and should just WD40 and Vaseline the hell out of them? The regulations for adventure say 1.5m water crossings, which puts it above the clocks on my disco. All good until you have to stop or get stuck in the water, then you are in trouble 😂. @Daan thanks for the video link, doesn’t look to bad for that G-wagon. So I have faith in the disco. The plan is for me to leave the disco over there after the event and then fly out there and get it a few weeks later after it has had the major bits replaced. I just can’t get enough time off work to drive there, do the event and drive back all in one go. Plus I can let my mates over there worry about fixing it enough to drive it back while I chill at work and hound them for progress updates 😂. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 2 hours ago, PandaSpeedShop said: Have been watching lots of videos from Ladoga and the narrow ridge section looks tricky for bigger cars. Looks like a whole lot of smashed bodywork trying to squeeze a disco between the narrow trees at the top 😬 Do you mean the tree of God? If so, all I've heard everyone say is you've got to kiss the tree (rub your roof along it), trying to go higher and miss it and you head for a long roll down into the lake, which is a bad day out even if there are always spectators to try to rescue you. You need to be absolutely paranoid about weight & weight distribution - go over the truck and all your gear and remove every last thing that doesn't absolutely have to be there. Look at Daan's truck for obsessive lightness. Once you start, you'll find so much stuff that you can remove & live without and it adds up surprisingly fast - bits of trim, brackets, cosmetic & sound-deadening parts... you can easily remove a 100kg pile of junk from something like a Discovery in a day's work. Get the heavy stuff down low, and if you've got a tech wagon on your trip leave absolutely everything that's not 100% essential to your survival in the wagon. Electrics will be a worry, if they say 1.5m water crossings they mean it - depends on the rain though. One year we had it very dry, one year they re-routed a stage after rain swelled a river and made a 1.5m crossing more like 2.5m, once they'd had a couple of trucks totally submerged they thought better of it The TD5 ECU is not a waterproof box, for some unknown reason it has drain holes in the back and goes on fire if you fill it with water. I don't know about the other ECU's but I'd get them as high up and as protected as you can (if you can't do away with them altogether), plus work out what the mission-critical failures are (crank sensor, AFM, immobiliser, for example) and how you deal with them. I'd be taking a decent diagnostic computer in the tech wagon. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Tourist doesn't do the tree of God. The year we went was dryer than normal but on river crossing was half way up the windscreen. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 I didn't think the tree of god was a problem; total anti climax once I saw it, just drove past without touching anything - or rolling down the hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 12 minutes ago, Daan said: I didn't think the tree of god was a problem; total anti climax once I saw it, just drove past without touching anything - or rolling down the hill. Hmmmmmm you did lower your roof didn't you................ Regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 https://youtu.be/VFt6KkQcZLI Us on the dune race. Mike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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