Ladoga Trophy 2022 Discovery 2

[PandaSpeedShop]

1 hour ago, landroversforever said:

Have you got a difflock transfer box? 

I do. But I am currently getting Winchester gears to build an updated transfer box with an Ashcroft ATB centre diff 

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Hello All

As said we have been asked to build a pair of high end differentials, one of which - the rear is basically the strongest possible LR Locker combo I think is avaiable anywhere, so I have decided to post up the Build(s) which I normally don't, as being an Admin I try not to post much about me as a business to avoid any conflict of interest

 

However, as this is a specific build Thread, and I have been asked to show it as part of the Discos build, here we go.

Hopefully the members will take the above and accept this as a bit of a one off

The 2 Differentials we have discussed at length, and then agreed the build spec on are as follows :

 

Front Differential

• New Xcess 4x4 Long Nose Pegged Casing
• New Ashlocker 24 Spline Locker
• Our "Tablock" Upgrade to the Ashlocker
• New Front Cut / Reverse Cut 3.75 HD Crown wheel & Pinion Set
• Full Ultra Build Spec
• Front Rotation Oil Vane upgrade
• Superflange Upgrade

 

Whilst this is buy any Standards "One hell of a Diff" the Rear is our "Ultimate" Build which is basically everything we can currently do to a LR Diff in terms of strength & Reliablity ....

 

Rear Differential 

• New Xcess 4x4 Long Nose "Ultimate" Pegged Casing
• New Ashlocker 24 Spline Locker
• Our "Tablock" Upgrade to the Ashlocker
• New Rear Cut 3.75 HD Crown wheel & Pinion Set
• Full Ultra Build Spec
• Rear Rotation Oil Vane upgrade
• Superflange Upgrade

So, today we started on the Rear Differential Casing which needs to be Pegged and then machined to be the "Ultimate" Pegged Casing

A few pictures from todays work :

For our Pegged Casings we use the Earlier "winged Capped" casings as they are the strongest, these have a steel "L" Shaped locking plate vs the later weaker casings which have a hollow 3mm cotter pin - which shears off and then the diff fails

 

So, the casings are aquablast cleaned leaving them ready to weld, the casing will start to surface rust over night but we just reclean the area needed and then crack on with 3 x CNC Cut 10mm Thick plates- which are a higher grade of steel than just Cold / Hot Rolled Mild, and this is as the steel is stronger and also welds better when TIGged to Cast steel casing.

 

The plates are Laser Cut but need to be linished and ground to fit casing. Unfortunately there are a number of casings that LR have had made and thus we have to hand finish for each to get a decent fit, and as with all things welding - clean clean clean

 

 

 

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Then we tack the 1st 2 x 10mm plates into place and check alighmnet, then TIG Them up with some very very expensive TIG rods which help aviod cracking on dissimilar welding between Hot rolled Plate and Cast steel casing !

Then we add a further top plate which when jigged into place is also welded fully into place.

This Long Nose Ultimate pegged casing is going to be number 888 ! so its written on it ready for machining drilling and tapping but 1st we take it out of the oven (oven is set at 220 Degrees - and welded casing is popped in and then door shut overn switched off to allow the 2 metals to be controlled as they cool, as they if left on the bench would cool at significantly differeing rates and then crack 😬 turning it into Scrap

 

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Before its completely cooled we take it out and Pour in a High grade expensive resin which "Purges" all the air out of the cavities and also seals any pin holes that may be there in the cast steel casing. When this has hardened off when it is milled flat drilled and tapped M16x2 for the special pegging bolts those 2 x holes are completely sealed from the reat of the casing - important as the Lower peg bolt is actually LOWER than the differential oil 
 

Final Pics of the casing 

The TIG work is not quite as neat as normal - I broke my arm just before Christmas and it still not that great - Paint will cover it up 🤦‍♂️😂

 

As to what makes this casing "Ultimate" - Here is a little video that explains

 

 

[L19MUD]

50 minutes ago, Hybrid_From_Hell said:

The TIG work is not quite as neat as normal - I broke my arm just before Christmas and it still not that great - Paint will cover it up 🤦‍♂️😂

 

Nice work Nige, as always.

 

Are we missing a HFH arm breaking story?! Hope you are on the mend though

[Nonimouse]

A couple of points:

Make sure you use all six available mounting points for the bumper and, as it has to be above the chassis, look at a possible 7 and 8 mounting points added to run down the line of the winch pull. The only annoying thing about the TDS is it's inability to fit between the rails...  At most it will draw 475amps before stall. Whilst testing at Superwinch, we couldn't hit the 500amp on the 12k. We did however (unofficially) stall at a damn site more than 12k!

Build a cage to protect you for that one big nasty - then add smaller, lighter tube as vehicle protection.  If you are going to be precious of the vehicle in any way, don't take it. Buy a cheaper shell, throw all the bits on it, do the even and then take them off. You cannot be precious in competition.

I'm envious of your chance to the Ladoga - it's still on my bucket list. The guys on here that have actually been are your lucky clover leaf. Listen to everything they say - even Fridge. There is no substitute for experience

 

 

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

2 hours ago, Nonimouse said:

A couple of points

 

 

All 100% cracking advice imvho

[FridgeFreezer]

2 hours ago, Nonimouse said:

Listen to everything they say - even Fridge

Only if really desperate though

[Daan]

On 2/13/2022 at 9:17 PM, PandaSpeedShop said:

Got them ordered, thanks for the link. 
I need to hold out for the 300M rear tough. Worst case I will have 2WD

First a comment to Nigel: Pornographic material is not allowed on this forum, I have reported you to the headmaster.

The 300M shafts are in my opinion a bit pointless on a Land rover axle. I mean if you make the shafts unbreakable, the failure will occur somewhere else, in this case, the diff?

The result of a broken diff is far more severe than a broken shaft; It could prevent you from finishing the stage, whereas a broken shaft only means you have 3 wheel drive, you finish the stage and fix the shaft in camp.

Daan

 

[PandaSpeedShop]

Thanks for the info guys. 
6 mounting points? I can only see 4 on the front chassis legs. I will put extra on the crossmember just to be sure. 
 

It’s so annoying that the TDS with the BOW motor is just 30mm too wide. But that stall info looks promising. 
 

@Daan the 300M rear shafts came from @Hybrid_From_Hell recommendation. I have 0 experience with any uprated landrover components. So if I can get away with the 4340 that would be great as they are available and a lot cheaper. 
 

Cage components ordered yesterday. Looking forward to trying out the bender. 

[Wytze]

46 minutes ago, PandaSpeedShop said:

 

It’s so annoying that the TDS with the BOW motor is just 30mm too wide. But that stall info looks promising. 

You could take out a bit of the inside of the chassis legs.  Beef it up with some 4 or 5 mm plate.

[miketomcat]

4 hours ago, PandaSpeedShop said:

Thanks for the info guys. 
6 mounting points? I can only see 4 on the front chassis legs. I will put extra on the crossmember just to be sure. 
 

I suspect nonimouse is referring to the tubes the lashing eyes are mounted to.

Mike

[Nonimouse]

26 minutes ago, miketomcat said:

I suspect nonimouse is referring to the tubes the lashing eyes are mounted to.

Mike

How well you know me

[PandaSpeedShop]

Made some progress on the winch bumper. The JD squared model 32 is a hell of a tool once you work out how to use it. Bent up 2” 3.2mm tube with relative ease and very good accuracy. 
 

I only have a small single garage so excuse the mess and the dark outdoor shots. All the work happens on the driveway. (My neighbours love me 😂)
 

[Maverik]

Tidy bends - what is the thickness tube you're using?

[PandaSpeedShop]

1 hour ago, Maverik said:

Tidy bends - what is the thickness tube you're using?

Thanks. 3.2mm 

[PandaSpeedShop]

Some more bumper spam. 
 

[Stellaghost]

7 hours ago, PandaSpeedShop said:

Thanks. 3.2mm 

Do you think that's strong enough ? Roll cage material is thicker than that and that bumper is going to take some hammer

4 minutes ago, PandaSpeedShop said:

Some more bumper spam. 
 

The extensions going under the lights will need some serious bracing otherwise 2 tonnes of vehicle pushing against some banking will crumple them fairly easily...

I could be speaking too soon as it's not complete as yet if so I apologise regards Stephen

[Stellaghost]

27 minutes ago, Stellaghost said:

Roll cage material is thicker than that and that bumper is going to take some hammer

My bad, sorry, 3mm seems to be minimum thickness for roll cage regards Stephen

[steve b]

From one of the pic's the tube is ERW not DOM seamless ? 

Steve 

[Bowie69]

2.64 is allowed if CDS:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj2-pnazof2AhUEgFwKHWpqBI0QFnoECEcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.alrc.co.uk%2Fstylesheets%2Fdownloads%2FRoll-cage-regulations.pdf&usg=AOvVaw23hZmFzqOP8kl4YlqK5R1V

 

 

 

[PandaSpeedShop]

Oh yeah, it’s nowhere near finished. Just a progress shot from tonight. Bottom tubes, towing eyes, plate infills and strengthening parts to go on still. 
 

Yes this is ERW. The roll cage is going to be CDS. 

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Fronts done !

a really high spec build but nothing quite like what the rear will end up looking 

need to machine and finish casing then will build the rear…few pictures of the finished front to keep Mr Panda quiet for a few more days 😂

[PandaSpeedShop]

Those look amazing! Can’t wait to get my hands on them haha

[FridgeFreezer]

Since it was mentioned some time back - I just found a picture of how Dan constructed my front bumper;

The back is boxed in & braced back to the chassis, so it should put up with a firm nudge or two.