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Evolution Suspension Grating


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Hi All,

A couple of weeks ago I fitted a 2" lift kit and 'evolution' suspension upgrade from Scorpion Racing to my 90.

All seemed to go well with the fitting but last weekend I took it off-road for the first time after fitting it (it will be used more off-road than on-road by the way as I live in the Falkland Islands and we regularly make a 60 mile each way trip off-road). On the way back a horrible grating sound could be heard from the suspension (on compression when traversing dips, etc). On investigation, I noticed that the rear of the front nearside spring was fouling on the rear of the dislocation cone - hence the grating noise. By the time I got back to Stanley the paint on the spring and the dislocation cone where it was fouling had obviously disappeared.

To be fair to SR they are determined to solve the problem and will replace any parts that might be required but I am a long way from the UK and any replacement parts will take a few months to arrive. They suggested rotating the spring, which I did but it makes no difference - the spring is obviously straight. It is as if the spring, under compression is bent like a banana and so fouls the location cone at the top.

Before I get back to SR, does anyone have any idea what could be causing this so I can discuss with some knowledge. The offside spring is fine. The spring sits central on the dislocation cone but the nearside fouls at its rear no matter what I do.

Cheers,

Keith

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Welcome Keith

I thought the SR cones were stainless so I'm surprised you say it is painted.

SR have a mixed reputation but lets see if we can sort it. Any chance of some pics, ideally both sides, and you may need to take the wheels off to give a good view of how the springs are sitting, the dislocation cones and the spring seat?

Also, did you change the trailing arms with this kit?

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Hello Keith, about time somebody else appeared on here :)

I wonder if it could be dodgy heat-treatment in the spring, more on one side than another producing a sort of torsion-bar effect in one part of the spring? It may be as simple as needing a new spring - and one way to find out would be to refit the original rear springs (still with the dislocation cones etc) and try it on some rough ground.

When you rotated the spring, did it foul in a different place?

I'll pop round some time after work and have a look

cheers

Stephen

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Welcome Keith

I thought the SR cones were stainless so I'm surprised you say it is painted.

SR have a mixed reputation but lets see if we can sort it. Any chance of some pics, ideally both sides, and you may need to take the wheels off to give a good view of how the springs are sitting, the dislocation cones and the spring seat?

Also, did you change the trailing arms with this kit?

They cones may be stainless steel but they are coated with something (may be powder coating rather than paint). If I can't sort it by the weekend I'll post some pictures. I think the problem probably lies with the spring seat rather than the spring. SR have been helpful and are determined to sort it.

I changed the rear trailing arms but not the front radius arms

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Hello Keith, about time somebody else appeared on here :)

I wonder if it could be dodgy heat-treatment in the spring, more on one side than another producing a sort of torsion-bar effect in one part of the spring? It may be as simple as needing a new spring - and one way to find out would be to refit the original rear springs (still with the dislocation cones etc) and try it on some rough ground.

When you rotated the spring, did it foul in a different place?

I'll pop round some time after work and have a look

cheers

Stephen

Stephen!

When I quickly read your reply I thought you were having a joke (ie "pop round after work") then I realised who you are. :D

I don't think that the spring is at fault. No matter where I rotate the spring to it fouls in the same place (at the back of the dislocation cone). I also turned the spring seat through 180 degrees and it made no difference. It looks to my untrained eye as if the spring seat is not sitting where it should be. It seems to be sloping down at the front compared with the driver's side (so that the spring is tilted forward). I can't see any sign of damage so it may always have been like this but the impact was not noticeable until the cones were fitted. Perhaps the easiest answer is to put a few washers under the front mounting bolt for the spring seat. This was suggested on another forum (boo hiss!).

Cheers,

Keith

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Guest diesel_jim
Hi All,

A couple of weeks ago I fitted a 2" lift kit and 'evolution' suspension upgrade from Scorpion Racing to my 90.

Yes, i see the problem! :D

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I know that SR are not everyone's favourite supplier from reading various posts but I have bought tons of stuff from them over the last few years and never had a problem. They may be pricey but when you live this far away you need to be able to rely on your suppliers.

Anyway, down to business. I have tried a couple of washers under the front mounting hole on the spring seat but it made little if any difference. I don't really want to go any further down this route as the slope of the seat is similar on both sides now that I've had the opportunity to have a good measure up.

I have attached some photos to see if anyone can glean anything from them. There are 3 from each side (firstly directly from each side, secondly of the dislocation cones themselves where you can see the effect of the binding on the passenger side and thirdly a little more from the front). It almost looks as if the axle is too far forward but I can't adjust that as it is obviously set by the length of the radius arms.

BTW Rotating the springs made no difference. It still binds in the same place so I can't see that the spring is at fault.

Any suggestions welcome!

Cheers,

Keith

Drivers Side OK post-2669-1169503974_thumb.jpgpost-2669-1169504002_thumb.jpgpost-2669-1169504023_thumb.jpg

Passenger Side binding post-2669-1169504042_thumb.jpgpost-2669-1169504062_thumb.jpgpost-2669-1169504084_thumb.jpg

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Always hard to check fro photos, but it looks like you axle is angled ahead of where it should be and this is supported by wear on the location cone. I would check the measurements of the axle to a common reference point. I would check this first before looking at the spring mount.

btw - does it steer straight?? :)

Cheers

Steve

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Always hard to check fro photos, but it looks like you axle is angled ahead of where it should be and this is supported by wear on the location cone. I would check the measurements of the axle to a common reference point. I would check this first before looking at the spring mount.

btw - does it steer straight?? :)

Cheers

Steve

Steers fine, centres ok and generally feels good. I don't see how the axle can be angled incorrectly though. I thought it was set by the radius arms (which have new polybushes fitted)

Cheers,

Keith

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Why not swap the springs over?

That way you can easily find out whether the problems surrounds axle alignment or spring shape and coil density.

If this doesn't provide any further information try swapping other components to try and ascertain which one is causing you grief.

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Why not swap the springs over?

That way you can easily find out whether the problems surrounds axle alignment or spring shape and coil density.

If this doesn't provide any further information try swapping other components to try and ascertain which one is causing you grief.

The springs are different on each side (all 4 are) so it would not sit true if they were swapped. Also, since rotating it makes no difference, I can't see that it can be the spring. I have also measured radius arms ams, spring mounts etc and they are identical as far as I can see.

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looks like you axle is angled ahead of where it should be and this is supported by wear on the location cone.

Ok I've had another look at your pictures but and I'd have to agree with Steve, import the first of those pictures (Drivers1 and Passengers1) into paint shop pro or something, draw a large rectangle (to get true 90degree corners) and place one straight, vertical line over the stainless steel break line connection down to the caliper. This way you can clearly see the passenger side is further forward than the driver side.

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Ok I've had another look at your pictures but and I'd have to agree with Steve, import the first of those pictures (Drivers1 and Passengers1) into paint shop pro or something, draw a large rectangle (to get true 90degree corners) and place one straight, vertical line over the stainless steel break line connection down to the caliper. This way you can clearly see the passenger side is further forward than the driver side.

Mmm - As I thought but I don't understand what could cause this to happen unless it was like this from new (ie the chassis mounts for the rear of the radius arms are incorrectly placed - are you listening Stephen?)

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I agree, it looks like an axle location problem. Effectively, the side with the rubbing spring is too far forward compared to the other. This could be a bush problem as suggested, or a chassis damage problem. If it has been in a hard front accident, the chassis rail on the side WITHOUT the rubbing spring, could have been pushed back. This would have levered the axle forward on the side with the rubbing spring as shown (though I would have expected to see the axle end of the other side looking as though it had moved back a bit too).

Similarly if the radius arm to chassis mount on the side with the rubbing spring has been damaged and re attached too far forward, it would explain your symptoms.

Hope its just the bushes!

Regards,

Diff

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Keith, just a thought, try turning the spring upside down

It isn't clear from the photos whether they have a "top" and a "bottom" but many springs do with the coils being a different rate in one section to another.

May do nothing, but may stop the noise...

I have to change my wheels in the next day or two so I'll have a look at mine and take a photo with the wheels off, it is about the same age as yours.

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any pics of the chassis mount for the radius arms?

I looked at it last night and while I didn't measure it there is no apparent difference side to side in the location of the chassis mounts, when compared to the location of the gbox crossmember.

The build tolerances of the chassis are not that tight anyway (look at the fit between box and body on a range of 130s to see what I mean! some are tight, some you can get your hand in)

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from this pic http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/OFFROAD/Pr.../ExtSuspKit.jpg

he has the springs the right way round

still think the bushes are causing his issues

Does anybody else think that the springs in that picture are the wrong way round :blink:

Front springs several inches longer than the rears? Not on every other set of springs I have ever seen...

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I agree with Tony, if the chassis mounts are in the right place and the axle is too far forward - which looks like the case to me, then the bushes are the problem. If they are not correctly seated in the chassis mounts, it may push the axle too far forward.

Don't forget that the polybushes are harder than the rubber ones and may mean that the axle is pushed forward. Assuming caster correction bushes haven't been fitted incorrectly at the axle end, I suspect that swopping back to standard rubber on the chassis end of the radius arms would sort the problem.

Regards,

Diff

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Does anybody else think that the springs in that picture are the wrong way round :blink:

Front springs several inches longer than the rears? Not on every other set of springs I have ever seen...

Hi Stephen, no the ones in the scorpion racing picture linked above are the right way round. Those particular fronts are longer because they are progressive springs. The closer coils close up when the weight is on them. The rear springs are shorter but not progressive and stiffer, so the net result is that the longer fronts compress much more than the shorter rears when the weight of the truck is on them.

Regards,

Diff

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