R380 gearbox

[Singr07]

Hi I am thinking about various options for my Defender 90 and need some advice on the gearbox please. My Defender has 300tdi conversion by some previous owner and it’s bolted onto original chassis and LT77 gearbox. Engine brackets has been chopped on the chassis and re welded closer to the bulkhead. Basically engine sitting far from the radiator, unlike original position of the 300tdi chassis. 

Gearbox Bell housing has slight cracks on it. And I have noticed a minor oil leak from the housing. It’s running good just now but don’t know how long it will last. 

I have 2 gearbox options, if I go for  a Stumpy R380 gearbox then I believe engine wouldn’t need to move forward. 

Or buy a R380 long length which would require to move the engine forward and would need new engine brackets fittings. 
 

Would the clutch assembly works better or worse with smaller or longer R380? Which would be the best option? And how much it labour would cost. Anyone here able to do this work for me?

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Singr07

[western]

Won't make any difference to the clutch operation. 

If it was mine I would leave the engine where it is & put a stumpy R380 in place of the LT77. 

[Singr07]

1 hour ago, western said:

Won't make any difference to the clutch operation. 

If it was mine I would leave the engine where it is & put a stumpy R380 in place of the LT77. 

Thanks any idea who can supply and fit please? I live in B68 West Midlands. 

[Mo Murphy]

What's wrong with the LT77 ?

Mo

[western]

1 hour ago, Singr07 said:

Thanks any idea who can supply and fit please? I live in B68 West Midlands. 

Not able to give advice on fitting in your area, simply don't have any info on suitable garages. 

[Singr07]

40 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said:

What's wrong with the LT77 ?

Mo

Hi Mo there is nothing wrong with LT77 it’s in good working order. I was just thinking if I have to replace 300tdi galvanised chassis in the future then it should fit straight into. Rear crossmember is bit rusty and I don’t want to spend £500 plus to fix it, then couple of years later spend more to fix the chassis. I am going to see a welder tomorrow and will request him to check the chassis properly. 

[Mo Murphy]

1 hour ago, Singr07 said:

Hi Mo there is nothing wrong with LT77 it’s in good working order. I was just thinking if I have to replace 300tdi galvanised chassis in the future then it should fit straight into. Rear crossmember is bit rusty and I don’t want to spend £500 plus to fix it, then couple of years later spend more to fix the chassis. I am going to see a welder tomorrow and will request him to check the chassis properly. 

The stumpy R380 and the LT77 are the same length and sit in the same position. If replacing the chassis then go for a normal defender R380 gearbox and put the 300tdi engine in the right place. You'll need a pair of the appropriate prop shafts too. Keeps it standard then.

HTH

Mo

[dave88sw]

7 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

The stumpy R380 and the LT77 are the same length and sit in the same position. If replacing the chassis then go for a normal defender R380 gearbox and put the 300tdi engine in the right place. You'll need a pair of the appropriate prop shafts too. Keeps it standard then.

HTH

Mo

If doing this though, you will have to change the front floors, transmission tunnel and seatbox for R380 items (you can buy the front flange for the seatbox to save having to replace the whole seatbox).

[Snagger]

Yep, if the gear box is good and you are happy with the configuration, leave it as is and if/when you get a new chassis, most manufacturers will produce a new chassis to your spec, in this case a 200Tdi or earlier chassis with relocated 300 engine mounts.  If your gearbox goes bad in the future, you can replace it with another LT77 or a stumpy R380 without further mods, parts or costs.  

A replacement bell housing should be easy to source, or you could have the existing one tig welded, if you are worried about the damage.  The innards should be dry, so it sounds like you may have a weepy crank shaft or gear box primary pinion seal.

The fan shroud not reaching the fan (or being omitted) may be a concern to you, but it is unlikely to because causing any trouble unless you plan to drive hot deserts.  If so, a 300 Defender shroud with a fabricated extension to reach back to the fan should work well.  

[Singr07]

5 hours ago, Snagger said:

Yep, if the gear box is good and you are happy with the configuration, leave it as is and if/when you get a new chassis, most manufacturers will produce a new chassis to your spec, in this case a 200Tdi or earlier chassis with relocated 300 engine mounts.  If your gearbox goes bad in the future, you can replace it with another LT77 or a stumpy R380 without further mods, parts or costs.  

A replacement bell housing should be easy to source, or you could have the existing one tig welded, if you are worried about the damage.  The innards should be dry, so it sounds like you may have a weepy crank shaft or gear box primary pinion seal.

The fan shroud not reaching the fan (or being omitted) may be a concern to you, but it is unlikely to because causing any trouble unless you plan to drive hot deserts.  If so, a 300 Defender shroud with a fabricated extension to reach back to the fan should work well.  

Hi here is the picture of the gearbox and engine underneath. I can but if oil is leaking from Transfer box and from the bell housing on both side. Don’t know if that’s normal or anything to worry about. 

[Singr07]

12 minutes ago, Singr07 said:

Hi here is the picture of the gearbox and engine underneath. I can see bit if oil is leaking from Transfer box shaft and from the bell housing on both side. Don’t know if that’s normal or anything to worry about. 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Singr07

[Singr07]

17 hours ago, Mo Murphy said:

The stumpy R380 and the LT77 are the same length and sit in the same position. If replacing the chassis then go for a normal defender R380 gearbox and put the 300tdi engine in the right place. You'll need a pair of the appropriate prop shafts too. Keeps it standard then.

HTH

Mo

Hi Mo here is the picture taken from underneath 

[reb78]

I have an LT77 bellhousing spare if you need one. Your wading plugs are in. Take them out to get a proper idea if you have a leak. 
 

Check that is an LT77 bellhousing though. Something doesnt look LT77 about it!

[Singr07]

3 minutes ago, reb78 said:

I have an LT77 bellhousing spare if you need one. Your wading plugs are in. Take them out to get a proper idea if you have a leak. 
 

Check that is an LT77 bellhousing though. Something doesnt look LT77 about it!

Hi thanks for your generous offer. I will take the plugs out and try to check it with a camera if I can. I have top left for reverse gear next to first gear and I think it is LT77. I am not sure what sort of bell housing it has LMHO.

[reb78]

I think I am wrong. You definitely have an lt77. I dont remember the base of the bellhousing being so square thats all. Anyway. Can always get you some pics to compare. Where is yours cracked?

Take the plugs out. Unless you get glugs of oil out I wouldnt worry too much. 

[Singr07]

1 hour ago, reb78 said:

I think I am wrong. You definitely have an lt77. I dont remember the base of the bellhousing being so square thats all. Anyway. Can always get you some pics to compare. Where is yours cracked?

Take the plugs out. Unless you get glugs of oil out I wouldnt worry too much. 

Hi please zoom onto the picture in the red the circle, left bottom corner. That’s where the oil is leak I from too (between the black gearbox and the bell housing. I took the round plugs off and can’t see anything properly because of that small hole.

When I bought the vehicle few years ago it was so noisy. I took out the gear seat bases and gearbox tunnel cover. Then noticed gearbox bolts were very loose. Gearbox was about 10mm away from the engine. I couldn’t believe I drove it like that from Swansea at 70mph. I fastened the gearbox bolts and it went bit quiet.

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Singr07

[Snagger]

As said above, you should remove the wading plug.  It is the one in the right hand side of your righted photo, on the flywheel housing of the engine, not the gear box bell housing.  It looks like a rubber grommet has been used.  It should have a proper steel threaded plug, basically a big machine screw (bolt of sorts).  
 

This should be left removed at all times except for wading.

 

The dried oil build up doesn’t look significant to me.  I don’t think you have an issue to worry about there.  If you have significant leaks on the LT230, then it is usually wear of the casing around the intermediate cluster shaft, allowing it to move a little radially and preventing the O-ring between shaft and case sealing.  It is very common and is cured, usually permanently, but having the hole bored and sleeved with a steel insert that is an interference fit, so will never move and so will never wear the hole in the aluminium again.  Have a look on Ashcroft Transmissions site and they should mention it, and it features in YouTube videos like the good vids by Britannica Restorations.  You could try a bottle of oil seal conditioner/restorer in the LT230 to see if that will swell the o-ring enough to seal (it’ll benefit the other seals anyway), and if you do have a weep into the bell housing, try it in the gear box and engine too.

[Singr07]

52 minutes ago, Snagger said:

As said above, you should remove the wading plug.  It is the one in the right hand side of your righted photo, on the flywheel housing of the engine, not the gear box bell housing.  It looks like a rubber grommet has been used.  It should have a proper steel threaded plug, basically a bug machine screw (bolt of sorts).  
 

This should be left removed at all times except for wading.

 

The dried oil build up doesn’t look significant to me.  I don’t think you have an issue to worry about there.  If you have significant leaks on the LT230, then it is usually wear of the casing around the intermediate cluster shaft, allowing it to move a little radially and preventing the O-ring between shaft and case sealing.  It is very common and is cured, usually permanently, but having the hole bored and sleeved with a steel insert that is an interference fit, so will never move and so will never wear the hole in the aluminium again.  Have a look on Ashcroft Transmissions site and they should mention it, and it features in YouTube videos like the good vids by Britannica Restorations.  You could try a bottle of oil seal conditioner/restorer in the LT230 to see if that will swell the o-ring enough to seal (it’ll benefit the other seals anyway), and if you do have a weep into the bell housing, try it in the gear box and engine too.

Thanks I’ll look up that video to watch 

[Snagger]

This is without reboring and sleeving the shaft holes.

[Mo Murphy]

I can't really see that much oil there.

Be aware though, that oil dripping from the engine will be blown back and can accumulate on the gearbox making it appear to be a gearbox leak.

Give it all a really good clean up with brake cleaner and then take it for a 15 minute drive. Take it home, reinspect and reevaluate. 

Hopefully the source of any oil should be apparent.

HTH

Mo

[Singr07]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:02 AM, dave88sw said:

If doing this though, you will have to change the front floors, transmission tunnel and seatbox for R380 items (you can buy the front flange for the seatbox to save having to replace the whole seatbox).

Hi do you mean I would need these items? Which front Flange would I need to avoid all these?

Edited April 23, 2022 by Singr07

[reb78]

16 hours ago, Singr07 said:

Hi please zoom onto the picture in the red the circle, left bottom corner. That’s where the oil is leak I from too (between the black gearbox and the bell housing. I took the round plugs off and can’t see anything properly because of that small hole.

When I bought the vehicle few years ago it was so noisy. I took out the gear seat bases and gearbox tunnel cover. Then noticed gearbox bolts were very loose. Gearbox was about 10mm away from the engine. I couldn’t believe I drove it like that from Swansea at 70mph. I fastened the gearbox bolts and it went bit quiet.

 

It does look like a crack. Scrape the gunge off maybe and clean it up to check?

[Bowie69]

If it is a crack in the bellhousing, if the other boots all there and tight I wouldn't worry too much about it....

[dave88sw]

5 hours ago, Singr07 said:

Hi do you mean I would need these items? Which front Flange would I need to avoid all these?

Yes, you would need everything there.  If you buy the r380 type flange for the seat box, which i believe YRM do, you won't need to replace your seatbox.  You will, however, need to cut the LT77 flange off the seatbox, cut the correct opening and rivet the new flange on.

[Singr07]

17 minutes ago, dave88sw said:

Yes, you would need everything there.  If you buy the r380 type flange for the seat box, which i believe YRM do, you won't need to replace your seatbox.  You will, however, need to cut the LT77 flange off the seatbox, cut the correct opening and rivet the new flange on.

Sorry to be pain, could you please forward a weblink or part number for YRM website? Thanks