200tdi (def) timing belt noise.

[western]

36 minutes ago, monkie said:

I think Western made a good point about the correct belt tension. How confident are you that the torque wrench you are using to set the tension is correct? Also I understand you shouldn't really use a click type torque wrench to set the tension on a timing belt tensioner. Can you borrow a dial type one just to check? Got to be worth a go? 

I have always used my Norbar click stop torque wrench, never had a noise that Mav is getting, mines not due a timing belt for another 10000 miles yet, I usually do it at 55000 miles intervals & always replace the tensioner. 

[Maverik]

25 minutes ago, steve b said:

Have you taken that tensioner off and checked the wheel is at 90 deg to the base face ? 

The shim has proved something about the tensioner or mounting face is not running true .

Steve

I've got 3 tensioners, 1x genuine, 1x OEM and 1x britpart - the pictures attached are the OEM and Genuine.

But the way the clamp work, it only clamps the bit of plate under the actual wheel, the rest of the plate just sits and doesn't obscure.

I ran all 3 tensioners one after the other with exactly the same setup and they all let the belt run about 1.5mm off the outer edge of the FIP pulley, as seen here.

[steve b]

This is very interesting to see studied in real detail , are you heading towards running built with the shim in place ? 

Steve

[Maverik]

21 minutes ago, steve b said:

This is very interesting to see studied in real detail , are you heading towards running built with the shim in place ? 

Steve

Yes, I'll hopefully get her back together tomorrow. I'm interested to see what the belt does when hot, hopefully the inspection hole will work.

[rusty_wingnut]

there's no shoulder on the tensioner locating peg? Someting stopping it going all the way home

[Maverik]

1 hour ago, rusty_wingnut said:

there's no shoulder on the tensioner locating peg? Someting stopping it going all the way home

I thought about about that - had a similar experience on a ships propeller actually - but in this situation the locator hole onto the dowl is pretty loose fitting, its not like a close fit really for example you can tilt the back plate when its on the dowel. - good thought though.

[Gazzar]

Probably being stupid, but what's the line on the case here:

[Maverik]

Think it was just a dirt mark.

 

[Maverik]

So having had a interesting chat with my Dad and talking throughsome things, he's mentioned something not considered yet, that the timing/crank pulleys themselves could be adversely worn...

I'd not really considered it but after looking at the FIP pulley (attached), I can see that could be part of the problem... I've seen a lot worse but i've already demonstrated it seems to take precious f-all to influance the running of the belt.

So ordered new FIP/cam pulleys... if I can get away without bodging with a shim then I'll try it.

[Eightpot]

The belt doesn't look ragged on the edge on the pics though I can't quite tell.  Are you sure its the belt catching and not say the timing cover oil seal dragging on the belt or bottom pulley?   Are there any rub marks on the cover other dust? 

[Nonimouse]

Do Zeus still do timing gears?

[Maverik]

2 hours ago, Eightpot said:

The belt doesn't look ragged on the edge on the pics though I can't quite tell.  Are you sure its the belt catching and not say the timing cover oil seal dragging on the belt or bottom pulley?   Are there any rub marks on the cover other dust? 

Its not ragged but is has started to wear the body where it was rubbing the lip on the tensioner. see crude cross section drawing, the dashed part has started to wear away.

[Maverik]

2 hours ago, Nonimouse said:

Do Zeus still do timing gears?

I don't think so. Richard Turner had some choice words for those kits, I've not seen one in the flesh but apparently they weren't up to the job they were created for.

[Nonimouse]

10 minutes ago, Maverik said:

I don't think so. Richard Turner had some choice words for those kits, I've not seen one in the flesh but apparently they weren't up to the job they were created for.

There are people who have proven that Richard was not entirely right. Jeff R on here has put years of hard abuse into his Zeus equiped 200tdi, with nary a problem. If I could find a kit I would swap out the belt for gears 

[Snagger]

12 minutes ago, Nonimouse said:

There are people who have proven that Richard was not entirely right. Jeff R on here has put years of hard abuse into his Zeus equiped 200tdi, with nary a problem. If I could find a kit I would swap out the belt for gears 

An LR mechanic friend told me years ago that part from being noisy, they had a habit of shearing the dowel off the end of the cam shaft.  I don’t know how many he saw do that, but he did work on at least two vehicles with them fitted.

[reb78]

16 minutes ago, Nonimouse said:

There are people who have proven that Richard was not entirely right. Jeff R on here has put years of hard abuse into his Zeus equiped 200tdi, with nary a problem. If I could find a kit I would swap out the belt for gears 

Ask Ralphs opinion too... @western

[monkie]

The thing is though in this specific case, we don't yet know what the problem is. There are thousands of 200Tdi's still happily running on timing belts. Replacing the belt and sprokets with gears would be throwing in the towel and side stepping the issue. I'm hoping that Maverik is able to get to the bottom of whatever the issue is so we can all learn.

 

[western]

1 hour ago, reb78 said:

Ask Ralphs opinion too... @western

I had a set fitted in August 1996, bought in June 1996 direct from Zues, the gears were fine but a misaligned FIP pulley put out of line stress on the spring loaded idler between FIP & camshaft, it sheared on me on the A30 one evening after collecting my 110 from the garage I bought it from after a MOT & service, I removed the gears & went back to factory timing belt set up, the kit completed 116,229 miles removed in Dec 2000,

I did send the kit to Zues & they inspected it & concluded the FIP pulley had been running out of true which caused the idler shaft on rear timing chest to shear off, there was no other damage, I wasn't very pleased as the kit was around £600 at the time I bought it. Pretty sure Zues no longer make or sell the kits, think they also had problems with the case harding of the finished gear teeth. 

Somewhere I have the report from Zues. 

[Happyoldgit]

6 hours ago, Nonimouse said:

Do Zeus still do timing gears?

Ah Zeus, moderating memories of trying to keep order in the mammoth thread on the old LRE forum.

[western]

Zues only do brake stuff now,

https://www.zeus.uk.com/

[cackshifter]

This may not be relevant to toothed belts but flat belts rely on a crown on the pulleys to keep them in place. The belt centres itself where the highest friction is. Is it possible a slight crowning has worn away? Otherwise it points to a misalignment again.

[Maverik]

Pulleys arrived, one on the left is genuine, the one on the right is turners supply country of origin- China.

It's as rough and your granny's chin, the oil seal land is rough, pretty unimpressed same pish as the crank pulleys.

If turners are building these into engines it's pretty shocking.

I won't be putting this in my truck.

[Bowie69]

Eeek, no, nor would I be.

Time for a trip to LR, if they still make them.

[Nonimouse]

15 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Eeek, no, nor would I be.

Time for a trip to LR, if they still make them.

Totally agree

I do know of a man who could make one - he's shy of money at the moment

 

[reb78]

Gosh! That is poor. Have Turners anything to say about it? Unlike them to supply such poor parts!

Edited May 25, 2022 by reb78