uninformed Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Hi all, who here has fitted a P38 steering box to a Def’r or Disco? How’d you go about it. How did it change the geometry? How do the two boxes compare for ratio and plumbing? cheers Serg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Not sure how it would mount on the chassis, I expect a fair amount of modification and fabrication would be required, I think it has been done on series vehicles to add power steering so might be worth a search for info there. They do work at a higher pressure though so you would have to fit a new power steering pump as well, not sure how this would work out. Depends on what engine you are running and what you are starting with. Does depend on why you want to do this anyway, if you have a scrap P38 and want to use the bits then just transfer the lot pumps and pipes included, if not just buy or repair the standard power steering box then its all simple, not sure about parts availability or prices over your way which might also be a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Why would you want to do this? It's a ton of work and I'm not sure there's any great benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 There are a few reasons. It has been stated that its a stronger box the the standard 4 bolt Def'r/Disco type. It mounts outboard which allows more room for engine swaps and their ancillaries. In particular for me, the M57 and the AC compressor. There is at least one company that makes a bolt in bracket including Panhard mount. Downsides are, longer drag link, shorter pitman arm and apparently higher operating pressure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 More turns lock to lock is a disadvantage. I have looked at it, Blackbird industries does a kit, but LHD is a problem. I have considered it, as the defender steering box is a bit of an turd. Land rover actually did this conversion on the works V8: Not sure if the outside the chassis location would work for me, as the wheel gets quite close at max articulation and steering. Daan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 Thanks Dan, do you know if the box has more overall angle of operation (to make up for the shorter pitman)? more turns lock to lock sounds like slower steering? clearance should not be an issue for me as my axle housing is 150mm wider than factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 There was some good discussion on this very topic on here when LR announced the works V8 - just need to find the Thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 10 hours ago, Maverik said: There was some good discussion on this very topic on here when LR announced the works V8 - just need to find the Thread. I’ve seen a little bit but not much in-depth. Most are putting them in Series. I never heard it mentioned regarding the different operating pressures, and only found out about the shorter pitman arm yesterday. I found the Works V8 thread Bowie69 linked and there is little tech regarding the steering box. Ill keep searching the web… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Just to throw the cat among the pigeons - I run a Disco 2 box on my 109 as someone told me those were stronger in the sector shaft, and it's entirely possible they run very similar pressure to the P38 what with sharing engines / PAS pumps. The mounting bolt spacing is different to the usual RRC/Disco/Defender, but it does sit inboard unlike the P38 box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 Yes I believe the D2 box is ment to be stronger than the older 4 bolt. A mate contacted Adwest years ago and that’s what they had advised him. Operating pressure for the D2 could be either way considering they also shared the same engine as Defenders… If I find out anything I’ll post it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 The sector shaft is stronger compared with the defender box, however, the worm is made out of cheese. As a result the improvement is not major. It does have fewer tuns lock to lock though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Daan said: The sector shaft is stronger compared with the defender box, however, the worm is made out of cheese. As a result the improvement is not major. It does have fewer tuns lock to lock though. Are you referring to the D2 steering box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, uninformed said: Are you referring to the D2 steering box? Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uninformed Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Daan said: Yes. Any idea if the D2 and P38 boxes share the same output spline and size? Are their pitman arms different lengths and can they be swapped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 6 hours ago, Daan said: however, the worm is made out of cheese Never heard this before, what makes you say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Judging from the amount of people that busted it in competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 On 7/21/2022 at 5:54 AM, uninformed said: Operating pressure for the D2 could be either way considering they also shared the same engine as Defenders… The V8 PAS pumps in the P38 and D2 look similar but have different part numbers. Could be different internal valving for different output pressures. Same for the TD5, which surprised me. I feel it more likely the D2 would match the TD5 as in the Defender than the higher pressure used in the P38. On the other hand, there are plenty of engine swaps out there using P38 V8s in a Defender or RRC, some with the P38 PAS pump. And they seem to cope without problems, so the other way round should be possible as well. Maybe the steering would be a bit heavier, but that shouldn't be a real problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 I use a P38 pump on standard 4 bolt box, works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 24 minutes ago, Escape said: there are plenty of engine swaps out there using P38 V8s in a Defender or RRC, some with the P38 PAS pump. And they seem to cope without problems That's my setup - P38 pump, D2 box, seems fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLineMike Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 22 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said: Never heard this before, what makes you say that? ive broken about 6 of them, everytime it punched the roller through the worm, at one stage we were changing them after everylap round walters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 Clearly I'm suffering from an excess of mechanical sympathy then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 On 7/18/2022 at 12:25 PM, uninformed said: Thanks Dan, do you know if the box has more overall angle of operation (to make up for the shorter pitman)? more turns lock to lock sounds like slower steering? clearance should not be an issue for me as my axle housing is 150mm wider than factory. I don't have the option of measuring angles accurately, but the swing of the ball joint is about 200mm lock to lock. Daan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Side note, what is the operating pressure of the P38 box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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