buying a vehicle lift for a smaller workshop - advice? MaxJax?

[twodoorgaz]

Hi everyone.

 

Had an offer accepted on a new house. Trying not to get too excited yet as this is our third attempt to move, with the past two having fallen through at the last moment, but just getting the finances ready to upgrade the garage.

 

Its a good size (the equivalent of a triple) but the roof trusses mean the head height is limited so I definitely don't have space for a full height lift. It does currently have a pit installed in the left hand bay - but I'm not a fan of them, partly for safety and partly for the inevitable water ingress (its very nicely made, block built with custom made heavy steel grille covers but it does have water in the bottom already).

 

So, I think my options are:

 

1) a mid height lift - like a MaxJax. The MaxJax M6k is a 2.7T 2-post lift which can be unbolted and rolled into a corner but it seem quite expensive (approx £2300) for what they are (more then a generic full-height 2-post lift) but it would definitely fit. Being an import from Europe or the US these are hampered by exchange rates. I know that Mike at Britannia Restorations on YouTube uses one in his LR garage and it seems OK. I'm also quite impressed with the changes that Bendpak have made since they took over production from Dannmar. I'd keep it in position most of the time but good to know I can unbolt it and roll it to the side should I ever need to. There's also a number of alternative "short post" lift suppliers like the liftech model at just £1650 for a 4.0T lift - this one is more of a permanent install. Similarly there's an Automotech 3.0T one at just £1550 with a similar design.

2) a scissor lift. these are more expensive at £2.5-£3k but still in budget, would take up much less space and could be sunk into the slab which would be very neat... but the lift would make the sill area of the lifted vehicle inaccessible

3) not possible due to the monumental cost (had a quote for £25k!) but the dream would be an unground 2-post lift like the Slift in-ground retractable unit.

4) I could keep the pit and improve it with lighting, a lifting beam and as an extreme a mechmate pit liner (they are really expensive - way more than a lift at about £3-4k). But it still has many of the small limitations as a basic pit - plus the health hazards. If I went for a mechmate I'd want the longest one possible so that I could get out of the pit comfortably with the vehicle above - groundwork cost would not be enormous given the pit is already dug - just knocking out the walls, extending the hole and backfilling with concrete from a pump - but still, its additional cost on top of the liner.

 

The plan would be to fill in the pit (approx 5' deep and I suspect this has been dug below the water table). However as a bonus option, I could simply part-fill the pit - leaving a recess a couple of feet deep that could be used in conjunction with the short lift to let me stand up fully underneath the vehicle in the centre section. This should be a no-brainer except that this would mean that the pit covers would stop me/a chair/the waste-oil receiver/transmission jacks from being able to roll smoothly over the garage floor under the ramp.

 

An extra bonus for having a lift is that I could park a sports car sized project underneath a vehicle on the ramp if I needed to.

 

So, having never owned one I'm curious as to any advice the forum may offer. My LR fleet does include both LWB and SWB land rovers and I know that the MaxJax unit can be used with LWB Defenders but that the arm/pad positioning does take some thought (Mike at Britannia Restorations has made a couple of custom arm pads that fit into specific chassis recesses on Defender 110s. In terms of usage, it would be a restoration tool (think lifting bodies off chassis - this would only apply to a 2-post) and general servicing too. I do have a backlog of three LRs to restore but also have an interest in 1970s/1980s saloons and hatchbacks so can't make it LR-specific.

 

After a lifetime of working on driveways, on gravel floored barns and in tiny garages... lets be honest, debating which lift to buy is a lovely problem to have 😀

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by twodoorgaz

[Escape]

Always nice dreaming about how to equip a workshop. 🙂

My 2cents:

- I've had a garage with a pit, but hated working in it. It was smallish so felt like dungeon, but much bigger and you have to be careful driving over it and smaller cars might not fit. The same for the depth: for a Land Rover I'd need a small step, on a Lotus I'd be crouched all the time. And yes, the inevitable water ingress.

- Just how limited are you for headroom? If you can fit the uprights, it easy to add a limit switch so you don't lift the car through the roof. Standard size lifts can be found cheaply either new or second hand. The budget ones I've seen are well up to occasional use, so no need to go over the top for a professional one. I paid around €1000 excl VAT for a new one a few years ago, the second lift of that type I've had and both served me well.

- I have both a 4-poster and a 2-poster. The 4-poster is used most of the time, because it's so easy to get a car onto it for a quick look or a service. The 2-poster is a bit more work to safely set up, but makes work on suspension, brakes etc easier. That tends to get used for longer projects. May be the best choice as an only lift. Scissor lifts are somewhat in between, easy enough and wheels free but less well suited to vehicles like a Land Rover with chassis jacking points. Also limited height, but with limited headroom that might not be the limiting factor for you. I don't have any direct experience but fear the lifting plates could get seriously in the way when working underneath. They seem more oriented at bringing a normal car up to a comfortable height for bodywork/cleaning. I briefly considered adding a 3rd scissor type lift in one of the workbays (also limited headroom) but decided against it because of the price. I'd get a second hand 2-poster instead.

- On my 2-poster it wouldn't be that hard to shorter the uprights if needed. You have to weld the end plate back on to attach the cables, but with little load directly on the welds and the built-in adjustability that not much of a problem. Not a deal breaker if you could mean being able to fit a decent cheap one.

- I'd be weary of a movable 2-poster as the mounting is critical. A mate had his lift fail with a 90 on it, luckily nothing underneath at the time (he also tends to park classic cars under the lift to save space, just like I do)! The bolts on one side ripped out of the concrete... A risk that IMHO would only increase if you're regularly removing and refitting them.

Do keep us posted!

Filip

[landroversforever]

What’s the design of the roof like? It is possible to open up a trussed roof to give you better head height. 

At 6’3” I’d rather have a Land Rover just off the floor on some decent stands than at a limited height on a lift - therefore sat on the floor or a short rolling seat. I had a glut of structural timber from work so I made up some ~400 tall solid blocks to put wheels on a bit like the race ramp blocks they make. So the car can be sat on its wheels. Decent big Jack with jacking beam makes it a doddle getting one end at a time on stands/blocks.

 

[landroversforever]

If you’re limited on space around it, a 2 poster takes up way less room than a 4 post. It’s one I’m fighting with at the moment… not so great untrusted floor in the workshop so I’m unlikely to put a 2poster in but I don’t want to sacrifice even more space for a 4 poster. Hence the monster Jack and stands/blocks. 

[oneandtwo]

I had an Automotec two post in a previous workshop. I was on the verge of buying a newer version from them for my new unit which has all the cables etc to the second post overhead - I was waiting for it to come back in stock a few months ago, then I thought back to how much I actually used my previous two post lift, and decided not to bother. It was always a nuisance to set up, and I used to find it much easier to just roll under a Defender anyway. I think the only job I did with it which I couldn’t do without it was swapping a 90 chassis by lifting the body up on the ramp.

[twodoorgaz]

Hi all - thank you very much. Some great thoughts there.

 

So, the scissor lift is out. As is the pit.

 

@Escape - that's a really good idea re: the full sized 2-post lift but with a limit switch, I hadn't considered that and a full size lift is basically the same price as a mid height lift as there's much more choice in the market. Re: headroom I just don't know at the moment, I didn't measure it when we went to look round the house but we have arranged to go back for a post-offer measure-up so I'll check. Its a decent height, I would guess around 2.5-3m but I'll need to make sure - more than enough to fit a full sized 2-post lift... I just couldn't lift the vehicle to the full height hence your suggestion of a limit switch.

 

@LandRoversforever - thats another great idea. Currently it has traditional trusses, with long horizontals spanning across the tops of the wall plates. But given that the roof is only made from simple corrugated steel then the cost of changing the truses to a vaulted type and refitting the sheets would be minimal. It still wouldn't be enough for a full lift but may get me an extra foot or two.

 

Thank you for the nightmares re the anchor bolts coming loose and the 90 falling 🤣. That might be enough to put me off the removable MaxJax posts altogether. While the slab is thick (it was built by a farmer to agricultural standards), I had already planned on having a section under each column cut out and back filled with cement to a much deeper level when the pit is filled.

 

A final thought that has come to me is in the design of the front face of the garage. Currently it has two large up and over doors on each side with a large wall between them - pushing vehicle access to the edges. I'd already budgeted for new roller shutters. If I was to have some blockwork done and a new steel, I could swap the two seperate doors for a single double sized roller shutter and push this to one side, say the right. This means I could have one vehicle parked in the middle of the garage (under the ridge), one on the far right side against the wall and the left most bay would become the workshop area and with the door blocked up I'd gain valuable wall space for tooling and benches.

 

quick sketch (not to scale)

Edited September 20, 2022 by twodoorgaz

[geoffbeaumont]

To my mind, if you're planning to fit new doors anyway, that's virtually a no brainer.

[Escape]

Indeed, one big door is better than 2 smaller ones. Depending on how long the garage is, you might even be able to get 3 cars inside if the door is wide enough.

[twodoorgaz]

its approx 7.6m wide by 7.5m deep: a lovely size.

[Escape]

That is a good size. You should be able to fit a 2-poster and have room for 2 more cars if needed. Especially with one big door.

[miketomcat]

How about a simonr style lifting roof section.

Mike

[landroversforever]

On 9/20/2022 at 3:51 PM, twodoorgaz said:

@LandRoversforever - thats another great idea. Currently it has traditional trusses, with long horizontals spanning across the tops of the wall plates. But given that the roof is only made from simple corrugated steel then the cost of changing the truses to a vaulted type and refitting the sheets would be minimal. It still wouldn't be enough for a full lift but may get me an extra foot or two.

Have a chat with a local builder, I’d have thought you could do the work from the inside without the need to take the roof off.

[L19MUD]

36 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

Have a chat with a local builder, I’d have thought you could do the work from the inside without the need to take the roof off.

agreed, you could probably do it truss by truss

[muddy]

I really like Pits, they are cheap (especialy if already installed) IMHO all pits should have a sump and a pump anyway and this takes care of any water ingress issues. Despite what many people say unless you spill a gallon of thinners down it and start welding or do a 45 minute engine warm up with the garage doors shut you are highly unlikely to have any issues. As for getting trapped down them i'd put that into the same catagory of people who use a jack without an Axle stand and then complain that its crushed their leg a little for thought goes a long way.

 

I used a workshop with limited headroom and that had a full size 4 poster over a shallow pit, you could have a defender at a comfortable height to work on the breaks but go into the pit and stand underneath. You can also hoard store  wheels and tyres down them.

 

Just my 2p, if I had the choice of anything a full height 4 poster with wheels free is as good as it gets for land rovers I think.

[L19MUD]

54 minutes ago, muddy said:

if I had the choice of anything a full height 4 poster with wheels free is as good as it gets for land rovers I think.

I have exactly this but find I hardly ever use the wheels free as it is a hassle to get the Land Rover in exactly the right place for the fixed left hand beam. Instead I have a pair of jacking beams which I use all the time as you can drive a car on and then lift either or both ends to do things such as brakes at a really nice easy height

[muddy]

Yes I had a pair of jacking beams that I made some adaptors to jack level around the diff. The ones I have used had both beams sliding so you could put both to one side to get them out the way if needed, I can see how a fixed beam would/could be a pain.

[landroversforever]

Also worth remembering that you don’t necessarily need the full lift height. Most jobs underneath you’ll only need it raised so chassis is eye level or so. So it helps if you’re shorter  

Having used 4post lifts with rolling jacking beams vs wheels free, I’d take the rolling jack(s) any day. 

[Bowie69]

5 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

Having used 4post lifts with rolling jacking beams vs wheels free, I’d take the rolling jack(s) any day. 

Yep, me too.

[simonr]

At work, we have a couple of mobile single post lifts which seem to work pretty well.  They were about the same price as a 2 post.

We bought them because space was very limited where we were and we didn't need to work on cars every day.  On other days, the lift was pushed into a corner or outside.

[landrover130]

I bought a two post lift after much thought re 2 or 4 post,I have never lifted a vehicle more than 2 feet off the ground yet as I find it easier to use a creeper to work underneath or sit on a chair to work on brakes etc. knees ache when standing so this works great for me.

[Escape]

On 9/24/2022 at 9:34 AM, simonr said:

At work, we have a couple of mobile single post lifts which seem to work pretty well.  They were about the same price as a 2 post.

We bought them because space was very limited where we were and we didn't need to work on cars every day.  On other days, the lift was pushed into a corner or outside.

A few weeks ago I got to visit a workshop where they rebuild diesel trains (including the huge 2-stroke V12 and V16 engines, I was like a kid in a candy store!). They had mobile single post lifts with wireless coupling and controlled from a single master unit. At 22.5ton each 4 are enough to lift a single diesel carriage. For the big locs they use a big overhead crane to lift them off the tracks, move to the correct workbay and then put down on a bunch of sizeable axle stands.  

[Arjan]

Oh yes, locomotive workshops can be......

Interesting !!!!

i'll have a 60 cm. pit under a 4 poster ramp once we get to build the workshop...

[landroversforever]

56 minutes ago, Escape said:

A few weeks ago I got to visit a workshop where they rebuild diesel trains (including the huge 2-stroke V12 and V16 engines, I was like a kid in a candy store!). They had mobile single post lifts with wireless coupling and controlled from a single master unit. At 22.5ton each 4 are enough to lift a single diesel carriage. For the big locs they use a big overhead crane to lift them off the tracks, move to the correct workbay and then put down on a bunch of sizeable axle stands.  

They're cool those lifts... they use versions of them in HGV workshops too. Can link any number of them together and lift up some monster vehicles.