white90 Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 On the bottle is states filled to 230bar just fitted a regulator to a bottle just collected from agent and it shows only 200bar either someones had 30bar of gas or it has been filled light the seal was intact on the top. it was stored outside would this have such a large effect? I have it in the garage now and will check it again later. Before I consider returning it any opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Tony, 200 Bar is a full bottle. They are only ever filled to 200 Bar. The bottle is rated higher than they are actually filled to for safety reasons! Cheers Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 odd it says filled to 230bar on the collar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Every one I've ever had has been 200 bar when new! I went through about 4 bottles last year and all were 200bar when full! Note the 3 letter work after the 230Bar bit......... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Cheers Jon I called BOC 0800111333 they said it should be 230bar at 15degrees C. This is the first one I had in ages so I can't remember what the last one showed when new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Fair enough. Frankly I'd hazard a guess that the gauges on regulators arent all that accurate aswell! Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Temparature shouldnt make a difference anyway - simple physics says pressure x volume = a constant. The volume isnt changing, so the pressure shouldnt either.............or am i missing something? Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Temperature has a very important part to play. Gas Law explains it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I get my Oxy-Actylene bottles from BOC and the contents pressure seems to vary quite a bit, especially the oxygen. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 simple physics says pressure x volume = a constant. ? What happens in that theory when you reduce the pressure by using some gas? Does the gas cylinder grow to compensate for the lower pressure? Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 They vary greatly.Get quite a few small argons with the seals on that are empty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 UPDATE: The cylinder is in the house (Val is at work) after 20mins the regulator is displaying 210bar I'll report back if it doesn't blow up and take out the ceiling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I've dropped one off the side of a building and it just bounced! there rated to 300 bar if i remember rightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 PS I've found a nice blanket in the airing cupboard So I've wrapped the cylinder in it gauge at 215bar when I just looked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Put a wig and some make up on it and stand it in the bedroom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Bedroom? Pah! That's *boring*... I keep mine in the garage Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Erm, I have my portable gas welding kit in the kitchen at present Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 What's a few bar amongst friends anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Temparature shouldnt make a difference anyway - simple physics says pressure x volume = a constant.The volume isnt changing, so the pressure shouldnt either.............or am i missing something? Jon (P x V)/T is constant, where T is temperature in degrees absolute P x V = kT so as temperature rises with a constant volume the pressure must rise. k depends on the gas, so for a given gas (P1 x V1)/T1 = (P2 x V2)/T2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 D'oh!!!! Looks like my schoolboy physics is more than a tad rusty then!! Must try harder.......sigh........ Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Here's one....... My CO2 bottle is about 50 bar and the gas is liquid (if you see what I mean). If a mixture of Co2 and argon is stored at over 200 bar why doesn't the CO2 liquify and stay as a liquid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Not sure I follow the Q, RTB? How do you know it doesn't inside the cylinder? Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Not sure I follow the Q, RTB?How do you know it doesn't inside the cylinder? Al Because if it was liquid it wouldn't boil off until the pressure dropped to about 50 bar so you'd only get argon upto that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ah! Good question. The only info I can find is that Argon remains a gas at 'standard temperature and increased pressure', while CO2 liquifies at 'standard temperature and increased presure'. Although that's not very usefully quantified... So, er, yeah... Good question! Maybe we need a chemist? Al. P.S. I'm still tempted to think they are both liquids in the cylinder though...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I was wondering if it was a similar effect like when you form an alloy the melting point drops below that of the metal with the highest MP, or if you mix liquids the freezing & boiling points do the same. If that is the case though, how can fractional distillation work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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