Dedicated to the 101 forward control axles

[Gazzar]

The 101 forward control one tonne truck has axles that are very different from civilian landrovers.

For a start, they are spring over axle configuration. They are Salisbury front and rear, the swivel balls are welded to the axle as well.

The differences are more than skin deep.

They are wider than civilian landrovers.

The diff carrier is the same as the standard series 3 LWB, but the similarities end there.

The half shafts are MUCH thicker, the differential gears (that the shafts go into) are consequently different, and the gearing ratio is much lower at 5.57 to 1.

And the hubs are designed for 6 studs, so standard Landrover wheels don't fit. Interestingly, Unimog rims do fit, I'm told.

The parts diagram:

 

Parts availability is reasonable, with specialist suppliers stocking consumables at acceptable cost, but, from what I can gather, wear isn't a massive issue, and breakages are unusual.

[Gazzar]

This is a Landrover 101 forward control, not to be confused with the civilian forward control. Very different beast.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I do have a brand spanking new 101 CWP which I can maybe help if you need measurements to compare

 

dont ask why … been in stock 12 f years so far 🤦‍♂️😂😂😂😂

[Gazzar]

It's the differential wheel splines that I've no knowledge of. I could rip open the diff on the 101, but that's a bit excessive.

When I'm ordering bits next I'll buy one. I can then compare with the 10 spline version.

 

What I don't have is access to Dana parts, at all.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Land Rover 24 spline

101 Forward control Late ( ie not 10 spline) 27 spline

Dana 60 35 Spline

 

Talk to Neil at Rakeway - he does / did / something like a Salisbury or 101 conversion to Dana 60 +  1 1/2" dia 35 spline shafts may help with gears ?

 

[Gazzar]

I have just sent an email to Neil, thanks Nige. I'll also talk to Martin at 101parts. I'm told that he's fitted a LSD recently. If that's true I might get him to supply one for me.

[Bowie69]

Some here:

 

[Gazzar]

Yes, the key appears to be the spline count.  I'd rather not get new halfshafts made. So finding a Dana LSD modified for a 101 appears to be the challenge.

@Bowie69

Do you think  your link is also worth putting in the general Salisbury v Dana thread?

[Snagger]

Easier to have half shafts made than custom diff gears, I suspect.  Have them made in uprated alloys by someone like Ashcroft, who make higher rated shafts for Series and Defender already, and you would be unlikely to ever need to replace them.

[Gazzar]

As I see it, the two options are either new half shaft, or broach the LSD/ATB input gear to fit standard part.

 

So a Salisbury truetrac for a 109 may be a good option, the skinny halfshafts on a civilian axle should mean there's a lot of meat in the part, so long as it doesn't weaken it overall.

[Bowie69]

Reading that thread I linked to, my initial path of investigation would be a D60 locker and see what options are available, and then what shafts could be made to go with it, something that is far more common in the US due to the commonality of axles between vehicles of all manufacturers and for decades.

 

[Bowie69]

Some more here:

 

[Bowie69]

And some more here, mentioning side gears:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/101-forward-controls-and-variations/76403-arb-diff-lock.html

 

[Gazzar]

3 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

And some more here, mentioning side gears:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/101-forward-controls-and-variations/76403-arb-diff-lock.html

 

That's incredibly useful. Thank you.

I am learning so much. The flange offset, that @Snaggerwants is probably the difference between the 4.56 and up and the 4.10 and down versions of the Dana 60.

It's looking increasingly likely that the way to achieve what I want at the back for my 101, is a Dana 60 thirty spline true trac, 4.56 and up, and to get the inputs broached to fit the 101 shafts.

The front is another challenge.

I am reluctant to go down the route of any locker that needs air, or other external control, to operate. It's another thing to go wrong, maintain, catch on debris. 

[Snagger]

Reading that article suggests to me the best option may be to use a Dana60 Trutrac for 30 spline shafts (assuming they are the closest oversize to the 101 shafts) and have custom shafts made.

Thanks for mentioning the thread obliquely had some of the information I need (I presume you mean the bit I screen shot below). 

[Gazzar]

Ideally I'd like a series Salisbury truetrac. That should allow a lot of metal in the side gear. I'll then explore getting the side gear opened up via EDM, which shouldn't damage the hardness of the gear. There's a few places doing EDM work near me, so that's encouraging.

I'd prefer to change the diff, rather than the shafts, as I like to keep as much as I can standard. And the standard shafts don't break with normal tyres.

 

Anyway, supply is the challenge, not even sure they were made.

Certainly, no UK stockists that I can see, so I'm asking US based suppliers.

I'll do the LWB at the same time.

[Snagger]

I’m pretty sure I previously saw the on LRParts.net, but they don’t show them now.  Maybe it was an accidental duplication of the 110 type and they didn’t know about the flange difference.  I don’t recall seeing them advertised elsewhere.
 

All I can suggest is to email Eaton customer service to ask.  

[Gazzar]

Eaton have yet to respond to my query from last week.

[Snagger]

A week isn’t that long.  Hopefully they’ll get around to it.  If Dave Ashcroft reads these threads, maybe he’ll add spacers to his stock and solve the problem for both of us!

[Gazzar]

Do you mean to add a spacer to a 110 Salisbury to take the series crown wheel to the pinion gear?

I'm sure I've read somewhere that this doesn't work, adds too much weight or something? 

[Snagger]

1 hour ago, Gazzar said:

Do you mean to add a spacer to a 110 Salisbury to take the series crown wheel to the pinion gear?

I'm sure I've read somewhere that this doesn't work, adds too much weight or something? 

Yes.  I can’t see why there would be a problem - the ring gear bolts are the only issue that springs to mind with the shear forces on them trying to bend them, but as long as they are of a high grade and are correctly tightened, it should be fine.  Maybe the ring gear locating step inside of the flange that centralises the ring gear is too shallow on a Salisbury to accurately centre the gear?  It is done on many other diffs, including both long and short nose Rover diffs.

[uninformed]

Not sure if the rear axle shafts are different to the fronts (god knows they could be 🤦🏻‍♂️) but the front shafts are

22 spline at diff

18 spline into CV

22 spline at drive flange 

the OD of the 22 spline at diff is approximately 36mm

[uninformed]

Here is a photo to show the size difference between an early 110/RRC (AEU2522/606665) vs 101FC CV star.

 

[Gazzar]

That's perfect, the size difference is huge, shows why the breaking half shafts risk is mush less of an issue with the 101.

[Snagger]

That must be close to 150% the sectional area, but the strength will be exponentially linked to radius, so is probably near twice the strength.