miketomcat Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 @FridgeFreezerCorrect, I borrowed a locker for Ladoga. I didn't technically own the car either (my ex girlfriend did don't ask ) So I wanted a quick and dirty solution. I fitted a £20 tyre compressor with a switch and pressure gauge from an air lift kit. When we wanted the locker I just ran the pump till the pressure reached something like 30psi then turned it off. When not required anymore I just released the pressure. No tank or fancy soloniods etc. Mike 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 17 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: You could convert an empty gas bottle full it up prior to going out to play, should last unless you spring a leak regards Stephen Couple of litres or so wouldn't take long to pump up with a bicycle pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 @simonr IIRC used to use the spare tyre pumped up to 60psi, so that was essentially free. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 On face book: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Persoanlly, I'd drive it. Actually use it. Find out what breaks I had LSD's on my RRC. Only thing I changed was using some Ashcroft rear half shafts - simply because I was given them. Biggest tyre I used was 32.5". Always muds On the 100", I broke the one an only diff I've ever broken in a land rover product (except for all the ones we broke at LRE on D2's) - left foot breaking in a gravel stream bed whilst recovering another vehicle, in reverse. So I deserved it On the 110 and the D1, standard. All the way through - although I used some non standard rear flanges in the 110; which saw more hard off road beating than 99.9% of Land Rovers My 88" Hybrid (Benji), ran a 4.6 Supercharged JE Lump, yet also didn't break 4.7 series diffs and RRC ten splines, despite 35x12.50 MT's Unless there is a comprehensive design flaw in the vehicle (early D2), it's the driver that breaks the diff. So learn to drive it 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Maverik Posted February 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2023 I've got my Torsen ATB 24 spline with Ashcrodt HD halfshaft in the back of my 90 and now have 10 spine trutrac in the front. Quite simply its awesome. - I read a comment "I don't like the idea of not knowing when an ATB is locking" - this made me smile, as weirdly you just know when the ATB is working, we had a lot of ice here before Christmas and I drove up the lane and I was gobsmacked at how she went up, and you feel the axles locking up when each wheel lost traction. You also hear when they're working - its difficult to describe but when doing slow crawling work, you hear them working. I've had the rear ATB in 3 years and the front just 6 months, wouldn't go back to a truck without ATB's quite simply. Much improved on-road handling and super off-road too. Nige built both diffs, the Trutrac was to my spec. I rattle around the roads and do a greenlane type activities in the truck these days, if it gets to strenuous I reel out the Husky. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted February 26, 2023 Author Share Posted February 26, 2023 Thanks, that's very useful feedback. I've put the drivetrain upgrades on hold until the car is running how I want and I have a garage again. Unless a product emerges that completely changes things, I'll be going with an ATB setup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 Given I'm able to smoke the rear tyres, an ATB for the LT230 is very much on the options list. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 That's just crazy though. I can't remember if you had any plans to dyno it, but I think you should! My transfer box ATB has made little to no difference to the way the car "feels", if that's any kind of a measurement. That's not to say I regret it, I'm just not aware of it. I think with axle ATBs, the difference has to be more tangible. ...random thought, but does having ATBs front and rear make the centre ATB pointless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, ThreePointFive said: That's just crazy though. I honestly thought the engine was bogging down/being unhappy, then the smoke from the tyres made its way into the cabin. I don't think I need to bother with a 2WD conversion, even if it were entertaining. 1 hour ago, ThreePointFive said: I can't remember if you had any plans to dyno it, but I think you should! I didn't have, but I may. It's no fire breather of a 4.0, but probably around the 220-230 mark, most importantly it sounds proper snarly when you rag it. 1 hour ago, ThreePointFive said: but does having ATBs front and rear make the centre ATB pointless? Nope, still torque biases between front and rear axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, ThreePointFive said: ...random thought, but does having ATBs front and rear make the centre ATB pointless? What @Bowie69 said - having ATBs in the middle just means it's less likely the centre will spin freely. An open diff will always split the torque 50:50 between outputs but if one of the outputs has little to no resistance on it then all the power from the input ends up going through to that output. In the instance of open diffs all around then you only need 1 out of the 4 wheels off the ground to lose forward progression, if the centre diff is locked then there's a 50:50 torque and power split so you need one wheel front and rear to lose traction. If you flip it such that you have an open diff in the centre and two ATBs in each axle then you need to lose traction on one of those axles to lose forward momentum. Depending on the particular ATB then this may be possible with one wheel only but definitely if both wheels lost traction (e.g. jacking up the entire front-end). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 13 hours ago, Bowie69 said: I honestly thought the engine was bogging down/being unhappy, then the smoke from the tyres made its way into the cabin. I don't think I need to bother with a 2WD conversion, even if it were entertaining. I didn't have, but I may. It's no fire breather of a 4.0, but probably around the 220-230 mark, most importantly it sounds proper snarly when you rag it. Nope, still torque biases between front and rear axles. Have you weighed it yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: Have you weighed it yet? Nope.... was 1280KG, suspect closer to 1350 with auto etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Nope.... was 1280KG, suspect closer to 1350 with auto etc. my Mini is 1380kg with me in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 It's lighter than my Audi Coupe Quattro 20V.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 15 hours ago, ThreePointFive said: I think with axle ATBs, the difference has to be more tangible. ...random thought, but does having ATBs front and rear make the centre ATB pointless? Axle ATBs will have a more pronounce effect than the centre ATB with open axle diffs, but with all three, your vehicle would be significantly more capable on variable surfaces than an otherwise similar vehicle with only axle ATBs. Not only that, but you have removed a weak point from the LT230 and eliminated a common source of backlash. With the centre diff locked, your vehicle is currently no different from standard, but for lanes, gravel, winter roads and so on, I’d say you have made a decent improvement, so have not wasted your money. You just won’t see the full benefit until you fit axle ATBs too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 14 hours ago, Ed Poore said: if the centre diff is locked then there's a 50:50 torque and power split so you need one wheel front and rear to lose traction. That's not entirely correct: an open diff will give a 50/50 torque split but will allow rotation (and thus power) to differ. So axle/wheel with the lowest traction determines the torque that can be applied, with one slipping this will be almost zero. A locked diff will maintain equal rotation, but will transfer torque (and thus power) to the side that can take the most. So the torque split can be anywhere between 100/0 and 0/100. Which means only one axle needs traction to keep moving and can potentially receive all the torque available. ATBs are in between, but much closer to a locked diff in terms of possible torque split so almost all of the advantages but none of the disadvantages. Your explication about wheels losing traction is correct of course, just nitpicking on the physics behind it. 😉 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 I've never understood the need for a ATB in a center diff, even in racing. The CD has a diff lock. it goes on or off. When you need it, it's there, when you don't it's not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: I've never understood the need for a ATB in a center diff, even in racing. The CD has a diff lock. it goes on or off. When you need it, it's there, when you don't it's not. It'd be handy on these apparently low-traction tarmac surfaces we have around here . Actually mostly interested in it being able to stop wheel hop, which is never, ever a good thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 I use the wheel hope to go round corners quicker. Ideally some really expensive shocks would stop that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 43 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: I've never understood the need for a ATB in a center diff, even in racing. The CD has a diff lock. it goes on or off. When you need it, it's there, when you don't it's not. I have read a fair few comments about “grenading” centre diffs with a hanging wheel. I don’t think a centre diff is wildly beneficial, but I think it’s a nice upgrade if you have the budget. Not anywhere close to the benefit of axle diff upgrades, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 53 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: I've never understood the need for a ATB in a center diff, even in racing. The CD has a diff lock. it goes on or off. When you need it, it's there, when you don't it's not. Well worth it for anything low traction.... otherwise your potentially unloaded front suspension will just make that end more likely to spin and take drive from the rear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Daan Posted February 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2023 I'd say it is beneficial in comp safari, or rallying, where a locked diff would make the car understeer and in an open diff you start spinning wheels earlier. A lot of development on rally cars centers around the centre diff for this reason. For what we are doing, it is usually diff lock on when it gets serious which also removes the weakness problem from what I understand. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FridgeFreezer Posted February 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Snagger said: I have read a fair few comments about “grenading” centre diffs with a hanging wheel. I don’t think a centre diff is wildly beneficial The spider gears in the centre diff (or axle diff for that matter) are not designed to be spun at a million miles an hour, so when people do that it wipes all the oil out of the channels and diff goes bang... operator error. See so many people doing it off-road with clearly zero thought about how the thing actually works - diff gears are designed to take up small variances as you go round corners, not one wheel in the air with your foot on the floor because it looks cool on instagram LR even put a sticker about it on the fusebox and a paragraph about it in the owners manual, not that anyone ever looks... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 I can't speak for the motivations of others but my rationale for a centre ATB was: 1. It would engage automatically if I had missed the cues it was time to use the lever - more applicable to an on-road situation where one might not expect to need it and the reaction time would be minimal 2. I heard they remove slop in the drivetrain and I'm all for improving the driving experience 3. I was going to get it refurbished anyway and the cost was a minimal increase for the potential benefits If that makes me a fool then so be it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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