Junglie Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 So. On an epic journey into the wilds of Suffolk to collect a gearbox to swap for a roof. That's a different story. I'll cut to the chase. I know my gearbox and transfer box are on the way out - I have refurbed ones to fit with the V8. But last night on the way back: My headlights went out and I had to hold the stalk in place. Dip started to work again after a bit, main beam was completely dark unless I held the stalk forward. I have a replacement here, but it was...focussing. The passenger side wiper blade delaminated. Fortunately the driver's side (just about) stayed together. On the Dartford Bridge at 50mph out of the blue the steering started to vibrate horrifically, accompanied by what sounded like a flat tyre. Got off the bridge because there's no hard shoulder and it was frankly terrifying as there were lots of lorries and it was raining. All 4 tyres are good. And the wheels are all properly attached. Pull away, work through the gears (it's noisier than usual) and up to 40 it's fine. By 50 it's taking all my strength to control the violent shimmy. Do the last part of the journey (I've got 15 minutes to go at this point) on mostly small country roads at low speed. No issues apart from the headlights. Last stretch of open road, all good at 50. What the...heck? The drive up was at between 50 and 60 - not thrashing it at all - mostly in fifth at a steady speed because it was motorway/dual carriageway. About 2 hours each way, so I guess it had been going for 3.5 hours when it decided to get bolshy. I'm baffled. Do I need to go and find a diff as well? I have a power steering box to fit (currently unassisted Bullworker spec), but is that it? And if so, how come it stopped? Any suggestions would be welcome. Not feeling the Landy Love quite so much this morning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 That's death wobble - it's no fun at all and is caused by slack in the steering / suspension system. Sometimes it can be one thing, sometimes it's just multiple things being on their wear limit and being a bit too loose. Driving over a bump or pothole can set it off. Kingpin preloads, steering TRE's, front axle suspension bushes all make a difference. Some folks will tell you to fit an HD steering damper, which just masks the problem and doesn't fix it. Don't do that. Nothing to do with the diff. This video shows it happening very clearly: 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 I only experienced it once.... it was 60mins or so into a ~1.5hr drive and came out of nowhere. It was knackered radius arm bushes in my case. I'd get under it and give all of the steering and front suspension bushes/bolts a good look over. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglie Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 Thanks guys, that actually makes some sense. I'll dive under it shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Wheel spacers or large offset Carlos Fandangos can make this worse too, also premature wear. I think Fridge is on the right track, but you might want to check the brakes for pad binding too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Mine used to shimmy rarely; it took a pry bar and Big Col to show that the steering box could move a very little bit. After some dismantling, descaling, paint and a proper tighten up it never happened again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Front wheel bearings can also cause death wobble but they have normally already shown up as knackered before the wobble. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 If you get someone to rock the steering wheel side to side while you watch and put a finger on the various bushes, hubs, track rod ends under the front end, the culprit/s should make themselves known. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, Eightpot said: If you get someone to rock the steering wheel side to side while you watch and put a finger on the various bushes, hubs, track rod ends under the front end, the culprit/s should make themselves known. This. And if you can't feel anything, try it again on a hard surface or with a tyre sidewall wedged against a kerb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 ... and the steering box..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglie Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 Thanks again guys. This thing is going to be like Trigger's broom by the end of it... And i'm going to be broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 A lot can be adjustment, remove a shim here, tweak steering box a bit, wheel alignment.... Do the free or very obvious stuff first. I had it on one pothole in one of my RRCs, and it was only that pot hole, something to do with speed, frequency and angle of steering.... Would shake badly, but never happened anywhere else. I removed a shim from each swivel and it solved it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 John and the others are bang on, and that video is horrifying but helpful in showing how the shimmy increases if the wheels are turning at a harmonic rpm. It seems most frequently to be caused by bad bushes (often the Panhard rod), swivel bearing preloads being too light, bad wheel bearings and incorrect caster angle (caused by bodged suspension lifts). Rod end and steering box wear can be a factor, but typically add play rather than shimmy. It is also highly apparent that oversize wheels and tyres massively increase the likelihood and severity of death wobble, and because they are usually accompanied by suspension lifts, they can combine with bad castor angles to even greater effect. As was said before, the diff won’t have anything to do with it, though it will suffer consequences from it if left unrectified. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglie Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 This is all great, thanks guys. Good news is that wheel and tyre sizes are nothing special - Land Rover Boost(?) alloys with normal tyres - and it sounds as though any bits I may need aren't going to be crazy money. It may be easy to get at while the engine and gearboxes are out as well, so it could be less of a problem than I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 I've had some wheel wobble recently. This morning I noticed a fairly large amount of mud trapped behind the bead lock flange of the front wheel. This ment it wasn't obvious until I was in the right position with the wheel at the right point. I fished the worst of it out and went to work. It was so vastly reduced I'll be washing the rest out this evening. The worst bit is I haven't even been off road recently, it must of happened when someone wouldn't move over on a narrow road and I had to take to the ditch for him to miss me. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 20 hours ago, landroversforever said: I only experienced it once.... it was 60mins or so into a ~1.5hr drive and came out of nowhere. It was knackered radius arm bushes in my case. I'd get under it and give all of the steering and front suspension bushes/bolts a good look over. I've got a bit of a 58mph wobble, not tooooo bad but needs sorting. I'll get underneath and have a look, however the radius arm bushes... surely I'm not going to sense any movement on those by just getting someone to giviethe wheel a bit of a move. I guess a big crow bar and lever against chassis to look for any movement is my best bet? - Checking bushes for wear is one of my weaknesses to be honest🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 42 minutes ago, tommobot said: I'll get underneath and have a look, however the radius arm bushes... surely I'm not going to sense any movement on those by just getting someone to giviethe wheel a bit of a move. Yes, you will absolutely feel or even see wear movement in radius arm axle bushes if the steering wheel is rocked - not just a bit of a move but rocked between 10-2 oclock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglie Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 23 minutes ago, Eightpot said: Yes, you will absolutely feel or even see wear movement in radius arm axle bushes if the steering wheel is rocked - not just a bit of a move but rocked between 10-2 oclock. **Daft question alert** My Landy doesn't have power steering so I'll have to get someone to swing on the wheel... Is there an easier way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Junglie said: **Daft question alert** My Landy doesn't have power steering so I'll have to get someone to swing on the wheel... Is there an easier way? All you need to be doing in the most part is moving the steering components. You don't want the tyres turning on the floor. EDIT: I should have quantified - you don't need to be turning lock to lock for example. Just rocking the steering left and right should be enough movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 It will still work without power steering, they are lower ratio than power steering and you only need a little road wheel movement so no need to go round the clock with the wheel - just fairly quick side to side rocking making sure all the slack is taken up and the wheels move a tad The steering is carried out by obviously rotating the steering wheel which turns the column through UJs into the steering box, that translates as a side to side movement of the drag link, which turns the n/s swivel, which is connected to the o/s swivel through the track rod and its joints, and the whole axle is located on the car using radius arms for fore/aft and the panhard rod for side/side. What you are looking for is slack in any of those components anywhere along the line - enough movement on the steering wheel to get a little movement on the front wheels should be fine, thats the final product of all the movements. A hand on each part including the swivel housings, without getting fingers trapped, will usually find the wear quite easily combined with looking and listening for clicks clonks or possibly bangs 🙂. A good rock on top of the front wheels in/out and you should feel any wear in the wheel bearings also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Junglie said: **Daft question alert** My Landy doesn't have power steering so I'll have to get someone to swing on the wheel... Is there an easier way? I check mine with the engine off anyway so no power assistance. Mike 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 ^^^ what they said, you're looking for play in the system, so you only need to be rocking the wheel back & forth to the point the tyres just think about moving. All the movement the wheel does to get to that point is slack in your system that you need to find & hopefully reduce. Just be aware that there's usually the most slack in the steering box dead centre because that's where it spends most of its time, so don't tighten it up dead nuts only to find you're now going to bind it up / damage it at full lock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglie Posted May 10, 2023 Author Share Posted May 10, 2023 Interesting - ever since I've had it it's been like driving in a 1950's movie... I seem to find myself moving the wheel about an eighth of a turn constantly, either to stay in a straight line or to take up slack before anything happens... Is it not supposed to be like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Nope, not really.... Sounds like steering box to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 More stupid questions... I recently noticed, and felt a bit of play in the steering, which appeared to be the bottom UJ. New UJ ordered, and wheel wobble seemsed to reduce slightly perhaps.. maybe. Anyway, I did about 200miles with the new UJ, and some mild off roading aswell, looked at joint again and there seems to be minor play in the splines and the UJ itself. If I do the bolts up guarantunly tight it disappears, are the splines on the central shaft known for wearing down? PS. Photo not of my shaft' 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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