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Gigglepin extended rear arms


smo

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no problem at all, merely asking a reasonable question - some bits seem to remain a mystery to me, this was obviously a total solution engineered 3 years ago but I was curious to know what the price was going to be for the remaining parts needed to complete the kit that will be available in Feb?

:)

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What am I thinking! I need to go back to school!

Lets take your points one by one:

How much articluation are you after....?
Not less than standard - surely?
Any more than we currently use is pointless, we want good axle movement not large droop.
It may just be my poor grasp of English or geometry, but, other than rise and droop, what movement does your axle have other than articulation?
However the bueaty of our arms is that being adjustable you can raise the differental pinion hieght to compensate for this when using the standard 'A' frame, and due to the fact that most vehicles will only at best have 11' of square downward travel this rules out any of the problems forseen by the calculation.
Adjusting the length is all very well - and you can make the pinion height right for one ride height - but your longer arms nearly double the misalignment of the pinion, so you are still worse off than a standard arm for a given displacement up or down - even within the 11" movement quoted.
Most also are restricted by the 'a'frame ball joint that also only allows limited downward travel
And limited articulation. Longer arms only limit this more.
Thank God for 30 degree propshafts...... laugh.gif
Err...what have 30 degree props got to do with it? The reasons for maintaining the same angular offset at either end is that it increases vibration and reduces the life of your UJ's

A cardon joint at one end may help - so maybe that's what you were talking about?

Longer 'A' frames will soon be available from oursleves mid feb smile.gif (Not a sales pitch, just fact)

Doesn't sound like a pitch - just fact.

How, just for argument sake are you going to increase the length of the A frame?

Move the axle back, and the spring hangers?

Move the Cross member forward?

Or extend the chassis rails between the cross member and the spring hangers?

None of these translate into a nice easy, bolt on solution.

In short, you are saying:

We do not need any more articulation

We do not need more droop

We do need more movement (in another mystery direction?)

To make the longer arms better than standard length ones you also need:

A 30 degree prop shaft

A longer A frame

You are telling me you have thought of all this and actually, what I've said supports your claim and means that longer arms are an advantage?

Have you considered Politics? - that was a masterpiece of spin!

Si

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You know the biggest problem here...?

I'm honest...?

What more can i say...

I don't hide behind politics or spin or anything else for that matter.....

I build stuff that i use.......and is sorry to say it.....................WIN

If the kits are that bad then i'm a better driver than i ever gave myself credit.......and i doubt that.....

Simon, I amazed at you......Gob smacked

I have not set out to make a cheap bolt on product. i sell a product that i use myself to great effect and that others have asked for, we do not advertise anywhere.

We post quite happily our explainations with no thought of spin or politics and we get treated like rats.

You can pick holes till you are blue in the face, fact remains it works for us.

I'm sorry for causing more anguish, but i just don't get the hostility on here.....

It sucks :huh:

Jim :blink:

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I know I'm a fairly new member on here, but why is there so much hostility between everyone.

At the end of the day we all have one thing in common or else we wouldnt be here! :rolleyes:

And for the people who come up with these new and innovative products, I take my hat off to you all. People shouldnt rip you apart, and like wise you shouldnt rip others apart!! :D

Calm Down......... :P

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Honestly Si - you can prove anything with "facts" :rolleyes:

Jim I think you are confusing technical interest with hostility - the problem seems to be that whenever people ask for technical details you revert to "well we win" etc. etc. which, whilst it may be true, does not help them understand your products. If people are working through suspension geometry and considering your arms then Simon's post, with numbers and technical analysis, is going to be of far more use than "more articulation than this is pointless" <_<

We still don't know how much current your twin-motor winch draws :unsure:

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I know I'm a fairly new member on here, but why is there so much hostility between everyone.

At the end of the day we all have one thing in common or else we wouldnt be here! :rolleyes:

And for the people who come up with these new and innovative products, I take my hat off to you all. People shouldnt rip you apart, and like wise you shouldnt rip others apart!! :D

Calm Down......... :P

and you can **** right off newbie!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:

Hehe sorry - couldn't help it ;) ;) ;) ;) ;):lol:

Ocassional flash points over ideas etc are quite acceptable on this forum, in my opinion :lol:

Cheers

Steve

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Just one more small thing.......

When i say "more than enough travel"

I refering to my opinion, not trying to change the views of others........

The arms are built to do a job and in a fashion that we deem best. It is not sold as a miracle kit

or as anything other than what it is.

Most that do fit or use this kit have/use wide angle props.

And in answer to you rquestion Simon. we do lengthen 90 chassis to utlise the longer A frame.

This is something that is becoming popular with those that have tray backed their vehicles and wish a 100 inch or longer variation, so in answer to your question, Yes we do lengthen the chassis on some cars. Whats wrong with that?

Sorry it does comform with your style of product, but it was never meant to.

Very sad.....

Jim

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My truck is in Exact Fabrication with Jims extended arms, I'm glad its the topic of conversation.

Let me just confirm, the arms do work.

My truck may have been at Chris's a long time but as i have found in the 4 years of doing off roading, it seems that no matter where you send your vehicle to get work done it takes forever!!

I'm happy with the work thats being done - hopefully it will get some good press when it hits the dirt.

On a personal note, I got into off roading because I thought it was where the men went to play - how wrong can you be!!!!

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My truck may have been at Chris's a long time but as i have found in the 4 years of doing off roading, it seems that no matter where you send your vehicle to get work done it takes forever!!

Yeah,

Thats because chris just has his feet reading the newspapers, cup a tea in one paw and grinder in the other, when you ring up to ask how he doing with your truck he switches the grinder on and says "flat out"

Don't need my coat as I replied a while ago to a PM and said as much :D

Hide yes,

Leave the country ? ...........possible

aviod 50 mile radius of Nottingham ?

.................:lol: Yeah probably, :D

Nige

PS Chris, good to see you back ! :P

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All of you are right!

Simon, the grafic representation is right, this is what happens when you have unequal arms. equal arms work better, when you have a choice.

However, in real life, with a lot articulation, this is not what happens. What does happen is that one wheel moves up, the other moves down. The a-arm does not move anywhere near as much as this representation shows. the representation will only ever happen when the truck is airborne for a long time, hardly a worry for us.

So in that respect I also say jim has a point and his setup does bring advantages.

There is a bit more to it in my mind, the main thing is that a lot of mods only help in droop, while bump is equally as important. For any setup, if you can balance bump and droop, you are improving. if you increase droop at the expense of bump, in my opinion, your car is not improving.

Daan

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Thank you Lord......

Some who understands........

This is why own vehicle has a low profile as does many others with good suspension, Paul Wightman, Hybrid from hell etc....

Because they have good compression and are not relying on huge droop, but a good combination of the two.

And then the droop of the A frame is far less important....

Thank you Daan for showing me how to explain,

Words are something i'm not great with, even when i understand what i'm trying to say.

Thank you

Jim :)

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OMG, its like the school playground. The off road community is a small one and is often very hostile - I guess its mostly to do with pride as we try to build the best and then win with it. People often take it far too seriously!

Si, the sums are interesting however the longer arms will help when you have an unequal amount of upwards and downwards travel (most vehicles) as they'll stop bump steer. I think the reduced angle they run at and the loss of the bracketry is an advantage.

FF, I hate to say it but winning consistantly does prove something. Not taking sides but it is a fact.

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Sorry Jim - didn't mean to cause offence.

I did not post the 'pretty pictures' for anything other than information. I was interested to see what the effect was.

Your reply just made me want to spit nails though! It was patronising and just tried to turn around the evidence to support your POV.

I (as you know) have seen your arms and regard them <b>very</b> highly. They are going to be strong enough for a tank - but the reasons they are an advantage, I feel, are different to those quoted.

The arms are strong enough that they will not bend when climbing rock steps. Removing the mounting hanging down further enhances this - That I see as being the biggest advantage. That's why I would fit longer arms - and fully agree that 100" wheelbase is 'golden'.

I hope that we can continue to be pals in the future.

Si

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Is it time for a group hug...?

Having ignored this thread from the beginning and just read it through, group banging together of heads seems more appropriate...

You can hardly move in here for all the toys and prams strewn around, it looks like Al Quaeda have bombed Hamleys on Christmas eve!!! :o

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My question about rotation angles of the joints seems to have got lost in all the excitement. I understand that the Johnny joints offer 30 degrees of movement, 15 degrees either way. That would make them more restrictive to articulation than the A-frame ball joint - assuming that the A-frame ball joint was at the optimum angle. If I am right, how do your arms offer any more articulation than standard Jim?

Chris

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My question about rotation angles of the joints seems to have got lost in all the excitement. I understand that the Johnny joints offer 30 degrees of movement, 15 degrees either way. That would make them more restrictive to articulation than the A-frame ball joint - assuming that the A-frame ball joint was at the optimum angle. If I am right, how do your arms offer any more articulation than standard Jim?

Chris

As far as i'm aware its 30degrees lateral movement, and unrestricted vertical movement so the johnny joint shouldnt restrict it in any way :)

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