kkk2 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I have an allard full width intercooler on my tweaked 200tdi, it runs a 300tdi turbo with a boost of 1.3 bar, I was wondering about fitting a second intercooler, I got one from a pajero with an electric fan included, if I fitted this after the main intercooler would I get a benefit? I was thinking along the lines of the RR classic 300 tdi auto which had a secondary intercooler fitted under the main one. any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 might take longer to reach boost with the added volume in the coolers, perhaps a wet chargecooler would be more efficient for the same space under the bonnet? or water mist your existing 'cooler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I'd think about getting a chargecooler. Same principle as an intercooler, except that the boosted air is cooled by a water jacket (think of a reversed radiator). I've just bought a Subaru Legacy chargecooler that's going into my 90 - cost second hand was about £70. I've read that they are MUCH more effective at cooling the charged air than a standard intercooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 There is quiet a bit of stuff to fit for a charge cooler to work (charge cooler, radiator, circulating pump) I am fairly strapped for room under the bonnet (Engine powered hydraulic pump) etc, I can fit this intercooler horiziontally with a ram scoop in the bonnet the intercooler is fairly small about the size of a std l/r intercooler. The pajero cooler comes with the mounting brackets for this mounting too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 along the lines of the RR classic 300 tdi auto which had a secondary intercooler fitted under the main one. any ideas? more likely it's either the air condition system condenser or a oil cooler for the auto gearbox [long this rectancular radiator] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 more likely it's either the air condition system condenser or a oil cooler for the auto gearbox [long this rectancular radiator] No it is an intercooler I followed the pipework when I saw it as I had never seen one like it before, It was also a Landrover item as well, it was fitted to a soft dash 300 tdi auto Rr classic 1994 vintage, it was imported from the Uk and now as a non age related number on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br00n1e Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 nah he is right Paj intercooler fits on top of the engine and has a wee fan underneath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 No it is an intercooler I followed the pipework when I saw it as I had never seen one like it before, It was also a Landrover item as well, it was fitted to a soft dash 300 tdi auto Rr classic 1994 vintage, it was imported from the Uk and now as a non age related number on it. done by a previous owner maybe or a tuning company, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 done by a previous owner maybe or a tuning company, Possibly as it has a styling kit and extra spots in the front grille, anyway what about fitting the jap intercooler? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsbreath Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Have got a twin intercooler setup on my Disco 300tdi, the original intercooler is in the usual place with the second mounted below the radiator. The second intercooler has a water mist triggered by a 'T' off from the boost gauge. Am still trying to get some details from the previous owner who doesn't know too much about it and is getting in touch with the guy who had it installed. Have never driven another Disco to compare it with but it seems to get along ok and going up hills it pulls like a schoolboy on viagra Will try and post some pics if anyone's interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I'd be interested in pics of the twin cooler setup - how much water does it use? I'd be tempted to get some kind of temperature readings off your existing setup to see how effective it is - you could get a measure of this by getting it mad hot and pointing an infra-red thermometer at the inlet and outlet header tanks, just to see how close to ambient you're getting already. In fact, if Mr Dogsbreath would be willing, three 'memory' liquid-crystal thermometers would tell how well each intercooler is doing (before, between, after). I experimented with water spray on my cooler - a very small positive effect, but not worth the weight of the water tank in my opinion. Be aware with a ram scoop though, the natural flow of air through a hole in the bonnet is outwards, not inwards. I chopped an old Series bonnet around and found that little tell-tale tissue paper strips were showing that a ram scoop would be working against nature to start with. I think Mo Murphy tried a similar trick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOA 93 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I'd be interested in pics of the twin cooler setup - how much water does it use?I'd be tempted to get some kind of temperature readings off your existing setup to see how effective it is - you could get a measure of this by getting it mad hot and pointing an infra-red thermometer at the inlet and outlet header tanks, just to see how close to ambient you're getting already. In fact, if Mr Dogsbreath would be willing, three 'memory' liquid-crystal thermometers would tell how well each intercooler is doing (before, between, after). I experimented with water spray on my cooler - a very small positive effect, but not worth the weight of the water tank in my opinion. Be aware with a ram scoop though, the natural flow of air through a hole in the bonnet is outwards, not inwards. I chopped an old Series bonnet around and found that little tell-tale tissue paper strips were showing that a ram scoop would be working against nature to start with. I think Mo Murphy tried a similar trick? To add to the above, there is a point of diminishing returns when adding intercoolers, while a good intercooler may drop the boost temperature from say 200C to 120C it then takes a very good efficient intercooler to drop this a further say 20C. Land Rover did a pretty good job of siting the standard intercooler (IMHO), no obstructions and short inlet tracts, Allard do a 2 stage intercooler set up, in addition to the full width kit they use a charge cooler and modify the Inlet manifold so that it actually houses the charge cooler, very trick, very neat and very ££££££...... However looking at the power claims for this set up it certainly don't give power in proportion to what it costs. When () I've fitted my new intercooler and got it sorted I'm going to look at water injection for any further improvements its pretty efficient. Cannot find much info relating to TD's but it is suitable, the nice thing about H20 injection is works all the time ie. it does not rely on air flow, Ideal for offroad I'd of though. A kit is about the same price as an aftermarket intercooler kit. Anyway the bottom line is you won't know until you try 2 intercoolers, they sell a similar set up for air con vehicles but again the intercooler is mounted up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 Be aware with a ram scoop though, the natural flow of air through a hole in the bonnet is outwards, not inwards. I chopped an old Series bonnet around and found that little tell-tale tissue paper strips were showing that a ram scoop would be working against nature to start with. I think Mo Murphy tried a similar trick? Thanks for that I was not aware of the airflow being outwards this would explain why the fan pushes the air upwards, I thought we had wired it wrong!! would I be better putting the scoop on with the opening facing the windscreen? The next time my M8 with the double intercooler is out I will get a few shots of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsbreath Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I'd be interested in pics of the twin cooler setup - how much water does it use?I'd be tempted to get some kind of temperature readings off your existing setup to see how effective it is - you could get a measure of this by getting it mad hot and pointing an infra-red thermometer at the inlet and outlet header tanks, just to see how close to ambient you're getting already. In fact, if Mr Dogsbreath would be willing, three 'memory' liquid-crystal thermometers would tell how well each intercooler is doing (before, between, after). I experimented with water spray on my cooler - a very small positive effect, but not worth the weight of the water tank in my opinion. Not sure as to how much water it uses as I've yet to get the thing to operate the tank would probably hold about 3 litres/3 kg of water and I'm guessing the extra intercooler and plumbing would be another 10kg. There's some sort of boost operated solenoid that triggers the spray which comes out of a garden micro sprinkler, the solenoid looks like it can be adjusted to come on at maximum boost but as yet I haven't had a serious play with it as I'm waiting to get some info from the original owner. A couple of weeks ago I took it over the Taupo Road which crosses 3 mountain ranges up to 2000m, the ambient temp was around 30c and it was happily whistling past V6 Pajero's on the steep sections while showing 15psi of boost on the gauge B) Will try and dig out some pics and see if I can scrounge up a IR thermometer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 whaaaaaaaaaaaaaay HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY :hysterical: , Fitted the second intercooler yesterday, roughly to see if there was a difference, Still smiling :i-m_so_happy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Any feeling or benchmarks on how well it goes? ie 0-60 or even "I could do 40 up this hill and now I can touch 65" (although that's not exactly scientific since its easy to bias) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk2 Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 Any feeling or benchmarks on how well it goes? I can pull away from a dead stop in 5th gear (High Box) running 35 inch Tyres?? Best I can do for now, I havent connected the fan of the 2nd Ic, and I must fit the set up properly before I do any more trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsbreath Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Sorted some pics of the 2nd intercooler and plumbing, bit hard to get a half decent pic down in the bowels of the engine room There's also a pic of the water spray unit and boost gauge, now I've just gotta figure out how to use it additional pipework water reservoir and actuator part of lower intercooler and a bit of a rust spot boost gauge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 What about a aquamist system? watr/alcohol injection into the inlet tract,keep temp well down,low water useage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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