FridgeFreezer Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 People under-estimate how hot engines like to run, 88deg stat doesn't fully open until something like 92deg so you're not even flowing full coolant volume until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill S Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 I'm off the road at the moment with the installation of the twin fuel tank system but will come back with some numbers. Rovegauge gives a data logging facility that records coolant and fuel temperatures etc as seen by the 14CUX and I'll be able to compare with my dash gauge. Haven't played with that yet but the weather's getting warmer and visitor numbers are building up, so I'll have some useful test conditions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommobot Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 On 6/6/2024 at 6:59 AM, Phill S said: That seems to give plenty of whoosh on a quick lash-up full blast parallel, and half(ish) speed series connections. Think that ought to do the job of looking after both the engine and aircon? Presume that one of these rads will need to be on the engine side to pull through the rad, as it looks like its a puller than rather than a pusher? As far as I'm aware, the defender with air-con, and I think most OEM arrangments have a aircon fan infront of the air con rad, with engine fans in the engine bay - May be entirely wrong though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill S Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 11 hours ago, tommobot said: As far as I'm aware, the defender with air-con, and I think most OEM arrangments have a aircon fan infront of the air con rad, with engine fans in the engine bay Yeah that's right, I thought it worth exploring a solution where the needs of both the radiator and the condenser could be met by a single pair of fans. You certainly wouldn't want the air conditioning system demanding full blast from the Freelander fans and sending a wodge of cold coolant into the engine. I'd rather been thinking that the P38 diagram shown previously would form a good basis for fan operation in the radiator/engine cooling system. Then, when the condenser needs cooling the P38 X312 switch could be used to operate the fans at half speed as needed. With the air moving more slowly and more time for heat transfer, when the air meets the radiator it will have been warmed by the condenser and the cold coolant effect is lessened. Assuming this all comes together ok I would plan to set it up that way and do some simple testing to see how it works out. If that's not behaving sensibly I can fit the Disco 1 always on fans on the front in the conventional always on way, and use the Freelander fans just to look after the engine coolant. Maybe I ought to be sensible and just do that and keep it simple. On the other hand the physical presence of fans both sides of the radiator/condenser combo potentially means quite of lot of blockage of air passage which is where this line of thinking started... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 14 hours ago, tommobot said: As far as I'm aware, the defender with air-con, and I think most OEM arrangments have a aircon fan infront of the air con rad, with engine fans in the engine bay - May be entirely wrong though! I think it depends what the stock fan is - on Land Rovers it tends to be a viscous fan as that's convenient so they have to stick the extra electric fan(s) in front to avoid the viscous, in a Freelander it's two electric fans as the engine is mounted transversely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill S Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 Aah - new learnings! I had no idea that the Freelander had a transverse engine and also hadn't looked at its air conditioning system being focused on the V8 systems. Spent some time looking at the documentation for the L2 and it seems the twin fans cool both the radiator and the condenser. Hurrah! So I think where I'll be going is using the fans 2-stage for the engine cooling requirements and slow speed only for the condenser, coming on when forward speed for the ambient weather conditions is insufficient. I need to check the pressure switch characteristics, but then I think I'll be ready to suggest a functional spec for this part of the system for the eagle eyed to offer any thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Think of a freelander being a mondeo on stilts and you are pretty close! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I’d like to offer a couple of thoughts: 1. You mention several times adjusting the lengths of rubber A/C coolant hoses, including, I believe, high pressure sections. How do you intend to join/rejoin rubber hose lengths? Since the hoses you’re talking about have original metal ends do you intend to replicate these? 2. Quote: "Then, when the condenser needs cooling the P38 X312 switch could be used to operate the fans at half speed as needed. With the air moving more slowly and more time for heat transfer, when the air meets the radiator it will have been warmed by the condenser and the cold coolant effect is lessened. “ It is true that the air will be warmer, but since it is moving more slowly it will not have removed as much heat from the A/C cooler/condenser as when the fans are at full speed, thus reducing the efficacy of the cooler/condenser and possibly not providing the cabin cooling required. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill S Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 On 6/13/2024 at 10:01 PM, Troll Hunter said: I’d like to offer a couple of thoughts Thoughts very welcome! And the purpose of this thread - I have only limited experience with a/c systems, I know to press that button with the white snowflake on it when it's hot. Or to demist in winter time. So.... On 6/13/2024 at 10:01 PM, Troll Hunter said: How do you intend to join/rejoin rubber hose There are dozens of vids on Youtube showing how to do your own a/c system. I'll put a link to a very useful one at the end of this. I like this one because the guy doesn't mind talking about what he did wrong, he obviously made some expensive mistakes installing on his XJS. It's not for those with limited attention span. Anyhow, at about the 45 minute point he's doing a good job of showing how to do the crimping of the rubber sections. I bought the hydraulic version of the same tool on AliExpress, it was about £100 when the VAT gets added in. Sorry future guy, I bought this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004134970611.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.33.1a9c1802PnlWIf Which comes with 7 dies. I'm pretty sure that in later stages of the project I'll be wanting to add oil coolers, so will be able to use it there too. On 6/13/2024 at 10:01 PM, Troll Hunter said: since it is moving more slowly it will not have removed as much heat from the A/C cooler/condenser as when the fans are at full speed Well it's all relative. The original Disco 1 fans are not all that powerful and just looking at the Freeloader ones operating at "half" speed on their own, not attached to anything, I'm guesstimating they should do fine. For the needs of the a/c that is. At full speed I think they would be unnecessarily over-cooling the engine coolant when the fans are needed for a/c only. The problem of using one mechanism to do two jobs. Assuming this all goes to plan I'll put in an over-ride switch and do some suck it and see experiments, so you might be found to be right yet. I've spent a couple of days recently sorting out the a/c electrics from the Disco 1 wiring loom, but sadly I learn that her sister is visiting next month and the back bedroom has to decorated. So that will slow things down somewhat. Anyway, here's the guy doing his XJS thing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 Many thanks for the link, Phill S. I've never tried making or modifying an A/C system, and I had no idea that such crimp fittings were available. Every day is a school day! I'll be following your progress with interest and wish you every success. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill S Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 Made the strategic decision to hold over the aircon fit until the winter time. A lot of bodywork dismantling at that point for the new paint job and the front will all be off again, so much easier to deal with some of the tricky bits at that stage. In other news I've been implementing the twin fuel tank system which is now working beautifully, and also the two-stage electric fans. Picking up from the point of my first tests with the Freelander fans described above, installation went as follows - by all means tell me how I should have done it. Using the scrap 2.5TD NTC6168 radiator - same model as I'm using - I trimmed back the bits that were trying to occupy the same space as the hose connectors etc, and cut an inch or so off of the bottom. A length of aluminum angle pop rivetted along the bottom and mocked up as follows: You might be able to make out that the left motor bracket sits a fair distance back than the right one - about 30mm. A problem because the fan motor body then wants to occupy the same space as the steering pump... I made up some bobbins from nylon bar to bring the fan closer to the radiator, there's then just enough clearance. I don't think the engine moves much in the fore and aft sense - it's been ok so far... And actually I got a bit more clearance than you see there when I made up a couple of L-shaped brackets to attach the fan housing to the radiator upper support brackets. A general view of the installation shown here: It's just taped in place in this pic. I've also put a couple of warning lamps on the dash to show when the two modes are operating. And a switch to turn on max mode if I want to have max cooling pre-emptively. All working fine. And I've fitted a Ramair filter to tide me over until I think I know what I'm going to do there: To be continued... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but Binky has a very compact and beautifully crafted HVAC system. You could learn a thing or two from that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill S Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 Blimey... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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